For the entire group, not for a subgroup of it. That is nothing more than school-mandated hazing. I doubt that the school would be able to say that freshman English majors have a curfew of 9 PM and no other freshmen or English majors do.

If they want the "pledge time" to be dry this must apply to the active members as well, and should be the same for each Greek group.

Being forced to refrain from drinking while pledging doesn't teach you anything about the history or traditions of the group, help you to get to know your future brothers or sisters, or prepare you for leadership.

I am curious to know why a chapter that chooses to have an 'alcohol free' pledge period, is hazing? I mean, if the chapter says "our chapter has an alcohol free pledge period, take it or leave it" and someone joins and is booted for alcohol, it's kind of their own fault.

Everyone know's hazing is wrong, but we've gotten waaay to PC about it.

I'm guessing most schools and groups have a rule that says pledge activities are not supposed to be more than x hours a week, or go on past so and so time, etc.

If you tell a pledge they cannot drink, smoke, fart whatever OUTSIDE OF OFFICIAL SORORITY/FRATERNITY FUNCTIONS you are breaking that rule.

Ummm following that logic, you could say, "Our chapter requires you to eat a large jar of mayonnaise while singing the National Anthem while naked in the middle of the Quad with crabs hanging from your nipples." If the student still joins despite this warning, would you say it's not hazing?

Woah that was quite the visual there.

I see what you are saying about it being a slippery slope and I agree that some will always push the line.

However, what if the ENITRE chapter did it? Why not? (I know that kind of changes the scenario) You are electing to be a member and (presumeably) no one is forcing you to join. If it is a healthy exercise, I personally don't see the problem. Part of where I am coming from is that I'm frustrated with the way greek insurance treats alocohol education. I would have had a hard time not drinking in college, but I think an chapter that says "hey we want you to do well in your classes and get to know these new women so we are asking that for four and half days you don't drink." I guess i see that as a good way to help break the image of greeks with drinks in their hands.

YaY! I cant go out with several of my sisters (with a DD) and have a drink because us hanging out is considered a function.

How hard is it for people to be smart and use common sense? The whole "what defines a function" garbage defies the whole point of being sisters and being friends and hanging out.

If Me hanging out with ONE other sister is considered a function, then the organization better be paying my expenses for that function.

Jocelyn...I mean, I understand in your case that it is a christian organization, but isnt a rule like that kind of extreme?

If the entire chapter did it, it's fine. It's like what Jocelyn described that Kappa Phi does, or like staying sober during rush week.

If the entire chapter does it, then you are not singling out one specific group (ie NM). As we were taught, anything you do to seperate one group from another is hazing. If the entire chapter cannot drink, then everyone is equal and there is no hazing. The minute one group is provided with different rules, hazing occurs.

While I do agree that a chapter saying "We want you to do well...etc etc....don't drink" would be a great thing to say, it has to be told to the entire chapter. Not just the new members.

amanda6035, I PM'd you.

pledging? what's that?

:confused:

Actually, yes, I'd say that is NOT hazing. It is a known stipulation that they knew about well in advance. What's the problem with that?

Let's hear it, show me how PC you are. Tell me, does your chapter 'require' your pledges to know lore about your chapter? Does it require them to dress a certain way for your rituals? Does it require them to have x amount of study hours? Does it require them to spend x amount of time at your house?

So if you know about it in advance, it's not hazing? That's the first time I've heard that.

well, I dont think he meant it like that. Just that you do not hide from them that you make them learn lore or particpate actively...

Here is my opinion on the alcohol and pledging. I dont think it is wrong to restrict it during the process. You are not demeaning them or harassing them. You are not asking them to have sex with sheep or doing ANYTHING that makes them look foolish. I agree with my Beta brother that it is on the same level of asking to know the lore. Its asking them to keep a clear mind about what they are learning and getting into. Its letting them know that the fraternity is not a group that just gets together to get shitfaced with one another. It also respectful to the pledges who dont drink, who want to be apart of the fraternity, and might feel pressured if his pledge class gets together to booze. It shouldnt be any sort of a challenge for a man to go 8 weeks without alcohol. It takes a better man to do that and stick with it, and you are doing it without degrading them in any way