Being local and with a refounding can be kinda touchy. In my opinion, we should be reaching out for the pre-refounding alumns more, but at the same time, they tend to not reach back and update their contact info! Grr! Our newer alumns who live in columbus are great though, it's wonderful to have someone who lives nearby able to save the day if need be, and also great to have random girls run up to you at Giant Eagle and hug you. It's also nice to see the founding member of your tree!

But trying to explain the movement away from hazing and still keeping traditions and rituals alive is a delicate process...there has to be a balance struck between "this is why we did/do this" and "let's do this because WE did it". Finding that balance point is a tricky situation, but it's getting better.

It's not just hazing that can be an issue. I've had situations where chapters had been doing the same philanthropy for 20 + years and the "alumnae" wouldn't let them change it, even though it was outdated and didn't fit with the mood/style of the current chapter. Some traditions are important (like ritual) but some have to go when they're no longer successful. My chapters who have advisors from several different universities don't run into this so much. It can be a big problem with chapters whose advisors are all from the same chapter.

Of course, then you get the "That's not how we did it at .XYZ". Although, new blood can mean new ideas, alumnae and advisors can't dictate to a chapter what they should do and shouldn't be offended if suggestions or new ideas aren't immediately welcomed.

Dee

It was really bad because the way her voice sounds, it already sounds like she's condescending.

I know she only had the best interests of the Fraternity in mind, but I was so happy when I found out that she was stepping down as chapter advisor. I only had to put up with her for one semester.

She's still very active with AGD, but it was determined that she was better suited to serve the alum chapter. Throughout my time as a collegian, her contact with the chapter was very minimal. :p

When I was active, we were trying desperately to get away from everything having an implication of hazing. So while trying to make things more positive and non-hazing, we had old alumnae question our decisions citing that "it wasn't tradition... the new girls get it too easy now... etc." :rolleyes: While you'd like to listen... there were times where I wanted to throw Baird's Manual at them.

Bottom line: When you graduate, you refer back to those days as "my chapter of initation." When you leave active chapter life, you have to let go. That's what alumnae associations are for.

If your chapter of initiation is having problems, you need to let the collegians and their advisers handle it. Too many times alum hear rumors and spread them to other alum, creating an unnecessary frenzy. IE: Chapter on probation for XYZ offense.

I think it's fine for concerned alum to reach out to the advisory board to offer to run a workshop, serve water at recruitment or say "I heard XYZ rumors about the chapter. Is it true? Can I do something to support the chapter?" But overall, let the chapter live its life and move on.

We had situations with alum coming back to recruitment and messing things up or taking over--- recruitment went well and the alpha class we took was exactly what we'd wanted-- but the logistics part of it were unnecessarily hard because of alumnae who wouldn't grow up. They've since begun a policy where you have to be approved to volunteer at recruitment and a paying member of the Alum Assoc. Others can donate supplies or meals during the week, etc. It may seem cruel, but its the only way to make the separation. And I agree with the other posters-- after college, why do you want to be spending all your time hanging around the sorority house, bossing around 18-20 year olds?

Our problem was with the advisor! During rush she was always pushing us to rush the 'supermodel' PNM's harder than other PNM's. I always wonder if she messed with the bid matching lists to put them higher up or something. She was totally obsessed with having appearance over substance, and she'd push the alumnae helping out to agree with her. Thank god she's not an advisor anymore.

Oh, we're not having any problems with that in OUR chapter, as of right now. I was just curious. We just had some fun people graduate, it will suck if I never see them again.

What I meant about alums behaving badly is the personality conflicts. When I overhear people discussing chapter drama, it usually involves an alum (I noticed this more in the social glos). Not so much as them overstepping their boundaries, though that isn't unheard of.

Ehh...I sometimes can't stand alumnae involvement. They either want to do things that aren't that quite nice that they did before back in the day:o Or..."you all aren't a good sisterhood like what WE had when I was active and blah blah blah..." :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I agree that it is hard to have over-bearing alumnae. I've delt with my share. However, something actives also need to remember that they can control this interaction too. (or at least in my opinion) When women graduate, they shouldn't be on your listserve knowing every email, and there's also a point where actives continue to tie alumnae in by telling them every dirty bit of a discussion. My college chapter had a situation, I gave her my advice, but told her that they really shouldn't be bringing this to every alumna, to contact the alumnae pres and leave it at that. It worked out and the chapter survived. If you always run for advice to people who are gone and having a hard time adjusting to non-college life (believe me it is NOT easy) it makes it easy for them to return somewhere comfortable. In my opinion the chapter should make the decision and go with it, tell the alumnae after unless their funding is critical.

Just a thought to put out there.

What ya trying to say PUNK! LOL JK KAYLA! I know what ya mean it was that way when I was active down there.

Little E is totally correct I will admit that I tend to have this problem because I am closer to alumni sisters then I am to the current sisters so when I am asked if I had a good day or am I talking to them it used to spill out O so and so did this....this and that happened, one day one of my friends was like I know were friends and stuff but maybe you shouldn't tell us all the little problems because it doesn't make you gurls look good. So I stopped when I needed advice I asked my friends but other then that I kept them updated but not on every detail.

Ok... this advisor could use some advice. There was a problem last year with some of the "older" actives getting TOO involved with the new members... i.e calling them for rides, divulging secrets before initiation, etc. I was told the active chapter tried to regulate it as much as possible and hoped that since they were all going alumnae after that semester, they would all just disappear. Well, as alumnae, they are still asking for rides and basically throwing the whole "I'm an alumnae" thing around at the active chapter. One suggestion I asked was to ban these certain sisters from events. But since they are still in college, it's not like I can just say, well they'll get a job or something.

But I can't have alumnae showing up to recruitment events plastered either. Any advice?

I've suggested to the president to let me talk to them since we are "on the same level" even though I'm much older than them so they might have a little more respect towards me. But I've also suggested having some sort of leadership or recruitment conference so the newer members know that this behavior isn't acceptable.

Anything else I can suggest would be awesome.

Are they still in college or are they graduated and alumnae?

Someone needs to sit down with them, or maybe just with the leaders and explain the situation they are creating within the chapter. Grandiose gestures about events that people are allowed to attend or not may turn off some alumnae, and that won't be good for the chapter. For the recruitment parties, when you send them the invite with what to wear, times etc, add in there a short tactful paragraph that addresses the issue. Desigate and older alumna, or yourself, to turn women away who come to an event intoxicated or otherwise unruly...I dunno if that helps, but good luck!
e

One of our traveling advisors showed up to a Halloween party social in a hooker outfit that was WAY wilder than any active would have worn. She also...uh...met... a young man at the social and, uhm, returned from the party really late. Like next morning late. (Note to ASAs: This was a LONG time ago, so don't even TRY to figure out who it might have been)

On a less-funny note, I remember reading an article in the Philadelphia Inquirer at a death at a Penn fraternity. As a careful reader, I noticed that the guy, who fell down outside steps and cracked his skull open, was both an alum and well into his 20's. And yet of course this prompted a lot of wailing about fraternity hi-jinks, even though it is unlikely that the actives could have done anything about a graduate who went out of his own accord and got smashed at Philadelphia bars, then returned to the outside of the house to party further.

I have found that a lot of recent graduates haven't gotten the message that once they graduate, "my chapter" now becomes "my chapter of initiation and I'm going to go join an alum association and/or volunteer with the national organization or devote my time volunteering directly with our philanthropy."

This isn't cause to offend anyone who is an alum and has a special affinity toward their chapter. But in the day-to-day goings on of a collegiate chapter-- unless you are dues-paying collegian, on the advisory board or part of the district officer structure supervising the chapter, your participation is now on a different level.

I feel like this lesson isn't adaquately provided to collegians during their stay in the chapter nor to alum.

I've had several instances where well-intentioned alums have escalated chapter incidents into major chaos.

ETA: And for those members who stay at their undergrad university through grad school, find a loophole to go "early alum," or just end up living in the same town-- understand thay while you are an alumna member of the sorority, you are no longer a member of the chapter. By all means, visit your friends at the house and socialize out in public. But don't crash chapter functions or get involved in chapter business-- it is no longer your place. It may sound harsh, but when too many cooks get in the kitchen, plans can go awry. Please stay involved in the organization with an alumnae association, volunteer to support the chapter and step away when asked regarding a chapter incident. Collegiate membership and alumnae membership are very different things and as an alumna, you have a whole wide world out there waiting to be discovered. Service to the sorority is wanted, needed and appreciated, but there are certain rules to remember and a fine line to maintain between involvement with a collegiate chapter and trying to assert your will or wants on a collegiate chapter that you are no longer a collegiate member of.