All I have to say is AMEN frat!

[This message has been edited by 7BA94 (edited August 29, 2000).]

7BA94 you are proof that MIP cant be all that bad. Cause someone like you "pledged" and got in. The more I read your posts the more I question the Omegas who brought you into their fraternity.

I'll make sure I do not take this the wrong way. First I am an Ice cold Alpha. For you who are uninformed, that is Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity Inc. If you did read the posts and you think I am wrong, you have the right to your opinion. Just make sure you read them and understood them; not just read them for surface or face value.

Sorry-- Mistook you for an Omega

First of all, we must be posting at the same time because I often don't see your answers until after I comment.

Secondly, calm down, I corrected myself.

And I KNOW posters on this board aren't even going to try to pull that you didnt read my post carefully card because we all read a little more quickly than maybe we should and we all get misinterpreted. I suspect youre trying to land a jab to soothe some dented ego. In any case, whats so great about ice? It melts.

First let me say that I don't disagree with anyone on here who believes in a process. I don't know how anyone can trully learn everything that they have to in a class room or on one weekend, or whatever. You need a process that will help to build that bond that is formed between those who have struggled together.

But what I have a real problem with, is people who shun other members becuase of how they were made. Yeah, there are some that walk in, simply to wear a T-Shirt, but somone who pledged in and wears simply wears a T-Shirt is just as bad in my opinion.

I think that we need to move the debate from how you got in, to what the hell you are doing now. If you have luv for your frat or soror., then you will work for it. But your love for the frat should be inspite of not becuase of your process. If you didn't luv Kappa before you entered, then you probably had no reason being on line, and no amount of ass whipping kan make you a better brother.

That's just my take. I will shut up now.

No ego just making sure that if you are disagreeing; you have thought about why you are disagreeing and have read and understood the posts. On the ice part, ice is a state of water the most powerful substance on the planet. It sustains life and has the ability to take it.
It's not only love for the frat it is also love for those individuals within the frat. It's getting that phone call at 3 am when you are sound asleep and getting up to help that individual frat brother because he needs help. This brother who you call may not do anything in the frat on the community service level, but he is the first there when a brothers in need. I can guarantee 90 out of 100 people who went through one weekend of whatever would not do the same. Why would they they do not even know the people they call brother.


[This message has been edited by 7BA94 (edited August 29, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by 7BA94 (edited August 29, 2000).]

just making sure that if you are disagreeing; you have thought about why you are disagreeing and have read and understood the posts.
My mistake on the fraternity name thing, yes okay, but dont flatter yourself. Your arguements arent that complicated, in fact I wonder if you've thought out YOUR position or if its just a gut reaction to change.


On the ice part, ice is a blah blah blah
Thanks. I was joking. Its a shame you cant see the face Im making right now.


It's not only love for the frat it is also love for those individuals within the frat.
Youve already said that you would never associate with individuals your frat let in. Am I missing the love part? Youre saying you dont trust your frats judgement calls. Mmmhmm. Where does love fit into all that?


It's getting that phone call at 3 am when you are sound asleep and getting up to help that individual frat brother because he needs help.
If thats all it is we're not really missing out on anything huh?

I wonder what would happen if MIP was actually embraced by members. People often say MIP people cant have a strong bond with their line bros. Maybe thats because candidates have already taken in all the ugly sentiments against MIP and turn it into a self fulfilling prophecy.

1Blonde: You were joking about the ice so was I no big deal.

I don't associate on the fraternal level with people who skated into the fraternity. I would do almost anything for my brothers. No I do no trust the MIP at all.

You are right it is no fun to wake up out of a good sleep to go help a brother in need, but that is where being selflessness (Is that a word?) comes in and knowing that if the situation was reversed your brother would be there to help you at 3 am. These brothers will also be there at and in your wedding or maybe God parents to your kids, or even look out for your mother when you are away from home. There is a true brotherhood that is there, and that brotherhood can not be formed in a weekend.

[This message has been edited by 7BA94 (edited August 29, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by 7BA94 (edited August 29, 2000).]

7BA94,
Frat, I agree with you.

1Blonde,
I might have overlooked this info., in earlier posts, but are you in a Greek Letter Organization. I hope so because you seem to have a heavy tongue on this topic.

Wow, this is a hot topic and it just got started today!

Well I think that everyone just needs to remember that everyone has a different idea of what pledging is. Pledging to me is promising that you will uphold the values, principles and ideals of your brother/sisterhood. It also means that you will promise to keep the traditions of the sorority/fraternity sacred and secret until the day you die. It also means to me that you promise to be trustworthy, loyal, dependable to the organization and it's members. You also pledge to love and respect other members and to provide love, respect and friendship to the members of the organization as well. This could go on and on really. But ya'll get the gist.

I just think that nowadays, pledging is synonomous(sp?) w/ hazing and that's not always the case. I'm sure that there are organizations out there that pledge their members w/out hazing.

Also administrators of various colleges have come up with a list of things that are defined as "hazing" and they have, in my opinion, gotten out of control. I put hazing in quotes b/c honestly, some of the things I've seen on this list are ridiculous. For example, the notion of setting study hours or study table for pledges. On some campuses, this is considered hazing. Now really, do ya'll think this is hazing? I don't. If it's strictly studying--not studying/reviewing anything that has to do w/ the sorority/fraternity--then to me, it's ok. I mean, most orgs all strive for academic excellence. So what are we as greeks saying when we can't provide an outlet for our pledges to study? As greeks we all know that when you pledge, there does come a time when things get overwhelming w/ classes, pledging and work (if you had to). I know for me, I was very thankful for having study hours. Now, active members have decided to also join their pledges at study table b/c I guess it's not considered hazing if the actives are doing it w/ them. I think study hours is a good idea and it's even better if actives partake in it as well. But I still don't see a problem w/ it period. But that's just one example of what is now considered "hazing". There are other things as well that similar to that. I read it on a website somewhere. I can't remember the address at the moment.

I just think that if we let pledging get to the point of hazing--in the sense of beating people until they are black and blue or drinking alcohol until they pass out, then that's obviously wrong and should NOT be tolerated. Stuff like that is NOT necessary. But I don't see anything wrong w/ pledging, as I have defined it. I also don't see anything wrong w/ an org having certain activities that pledges perform to help them understand the ideals of that org. Or to further help them pledge their love and dedication to the org.

And last, I personally know what it's like to go through MIP and to pledge. My sisters and I founded a chapter of my org. We went through both. At the end, we all agreed that pledging was the key and the way to go. But remember, our pledging was how I defined it above. So in that case, it was good (and SO necessary http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif). Honestly, the other way didn't work well....at all! But that's my 4 cents http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by ZChi4Life (edited August 29, 2000).]

Damn!!!!!!
Just look at the way we get when talking about the whole paper/pleding thing. OF COURSE IT HURTS US!!!!!!! This is enough evidence. It hurts orgs. because it creates divisions: those who pledge and those who did not. Honestly, I try to say paper does not bother me, somehow it influences the way I act towards those who I know did not pledge. Many times it depends of the person. I have a friend member or XYZ sorority- We came in same semester but some people get upset when I call her sands 'cause she is "paper". I love the girl to death and, SOMETIMES, it does not bother me to know she did not do what I did to become greek. I just feel like she was deprived of the experience, but it does not make her less of a person. If I could go back, I would pledge again. If my kids wanted to be greek, I would like for them to pledge-
Hope I answered the /?

Another thing:

I WILL ALWAYS RESPECT FELLOW GREEKS NOMATTER HOW THEY COME IN!!!!, NOW, DO I FEEL I CAN RELATE TO THEM THE SAME WAY????
NO WAY!!!!!! THE TERM SANDS, and SOROR/FRAT HAS A MEANING.
RESPECT ALL- LOVE SOME.
Ps> considering the meaning of the word LOVE>