sororities and fraternaties aren't secret societies...if they were secret you would not know about them...hence the term secret society...they are organizations that keep some things sacred...like you do in your own family...or secret for those that just want to feel good about using the word...

wasn't pledging public at one time? i would not be for the taping of the process for my own personal reasons...which everyone has...but how could membership not have it's privileges...when pledging was once a "public" event?

[This message has been edited by CelestialBlu1 (edited July 04, 2001).]

QUOTE]Originally posted by lastpoetnsite:
much respect...

although i am not a member of any organization. (no disrespect, but that is just it and that is why you are not understanding)

i am just curious as to why everyone is getting up in arms. i would understand if the MIP process was not in place but since it
is...and no one is supposed to be hiding anything then why all the alarm.(We are not to hide anything from our organization, now
where do you have to let the world in on yours to be on the up and up)

no one would be able to see any of the formal initiation ceremony be it for professional GLO's, service GLO's, social/service
BGLOs/GLOs etc.

so if they just showed from beginning to end *minus the "secret stuff" like showing who individuals voted for(why put that out for
the world to see, and for those not voted for why embarrass them), the ceremony of initiation(remember above you even agreed
this shouldn't be seen) and whatnot(and all that is left makes for a very dull, boring, quick show) then why all the alarm?

if everything is supposed to be on the up and up. i would think that one thing they would show or possibly like to show is that
the terrorizing of the past...*that people are so up in arms about: i.e. hazing* has stopped.(Whether it stops or not do you think
anyone would actually show it on t.v ?)

i would suspect that this could be a wonderful public relations coup. especially for organizations that are getting sued out of their
headquarters.(Why it won't stop the lawsuits)

i mean to show the world that hey...everything is cool now.(And the world will always have it's opinions on if things are cool and
a series on MTV will not stop what is happening everywhere else.)

my biggest question is...what could it hurt? would it do more harm than good? doubtful. the greek system in the eyes of the
public is in a shambles...you can only go up from here.

(Again with no disrespect my BIGGEST answer to you is what it can hurt is the sacred environment of each organization, what
it can't help is what has happened in each and what will happened.)

So QUESTION why not let the world see what happens in each by joining the one you are interested in. And if you aren't
interested in any greek world, why would you tune in ??? (guess there are always nosey roseys in the world UH ??)

just some thoughts.

peace[/QUOTE]

Forgot to put that my responses are in parenthesis. Sorry for the inconvience http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif





[/QUOTE]

a friend of mine told me that when her mom pledged one of the things they had to do was "skip" to class...that sounds a bit public to me...although doing stupid things has nothing to do with PLEDGING an organization...the right way...that is what i was referring to...things like that...

[This message has been edited by CelestialBlu1 (edited July 04, 2001).]

Things like that are not really the meat of the process. It would be kind of stupid for us to be upset about filming things that are done for all eyes to see. As everyone has very eloquently stated, there are MANY aspects of pledging & membership that are closed to the public. Evidence of this is the number of people who ask 'what happens when you pledge?' It's a natural curiosity about the unknown. If pledging truly were a public event, as the Inauguration is, they'd have the opportunity to see what happens for themselves without having to become a member.

I don't think it has anything to do with hiding anything. It's just the fact that there are some things in life that are meant for you to know and others that aren't. This just happens to be one of them. The process is no longer sacred if the world is viewing it.

On a side note, it's the same as your life. Although you might not have anything to hide, you don't want just any and everyone to know everything about you. Let alone document it on television. Unless of course you're into that sort of thing.

much respect...

lavataca...i took no disrespect in your statements but i was merely coming at this from the standpoint of devils advocate. so its not because i'm not in an organization that i don't understand "the other point of view". i made mention of that fact as a way of protecting myself. plenty of times people come on and make statements and then are accused or found out to be perps. so usually before i post about any issues concerning greek life or organizations i state that i am not a member...but that doesn't mean i don't have an opinion.

i would suspect probably one of the main reasons mtv or any other network that would be interested in showing "the process" is probably because of the numerous deaths, injuries, and lawsuits that have been amassed in the past years. it was probably definitely someone thinking we want to see what is happening for these people to have been injured and killed.

understandably "the process" is sacred. and it is not to be shown to everyone. and there would be alot of people who would be interested because they are nosey. and there would be alot of people who would be interested because they want to prove to the world that it is "safe" to pledge/MIP/whatever.

do i want to see it? nope. i figure whatever gets shown will only be either a misrepresentation of the truth or an out an out lie. so its not worth it to me. but i do appreciate it as a wonderful public relations tool. its an opportunity in some ways to counter-balance the notion that greeks are unruly, ignorant, abusive, power-hungry maniacs who are just out to either have your son or daughter drink, sex, or be beat to death.

i do think that mtv has done something about greeks in the past. but nothing as in depth as this. for some reason i believe i saw a special where they showed black greeks stepping.

i doubt though that mtv or any group could get the national headquarters of any of the divine nine to agree to such a show anyway. so its really nothing to get hyped up about. i would actually see them focusing on white greeks more.

in any case...while i am not a member i do understand both sides.

peace

I agree. We're discussing this, but MTV won't be taping HBGLOs. I've noticed a couple of references to people "skipping" to class, etc. Such above ground practices are available for the public eye...but I think it is completely different when there are cameras taping such practices. This is called commercializing...and HBGLOs are commercialized enough, we don't need MTV involved.

CelestialBlu1, where do you the idea get that pledging was/is a public event?

CelestialBlu, what the public "saw" what what the public was privileged to see. That's what you're calling pledging but that's not what pledging, intake or whatever we want to call it is all about. There is a process and the process and what it entails are for those who've been invited to participate in the process. That PROCESS is not for the public and if it were, then, we wouldn't be unique. That PROCESS is the making of the member, respective to each individual organization, and if that is public, then everyone knows how one is made and once again, there would be nothing unique and special about us.

I hope I'm making sense.

[This message has been edited by DirectorDST99 (edited July 04, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by DirectorDST99 (edited July 04, 2001).]

more accurately...there are some things some people are PREPARED to know at that given moment...and others aren't...prepared to know...at that moment...not some are meant to know and others aren't...



[This message has been edited by CelestialBlu1 (edited July 05, 2001).]

Althoguht there maybe some other reasons why MTV may want to do this documentary, I seriuosly doubt that it is in response to the deaths and injuries. I think it is in response to the public's thirst for voyeurist television. Actually, I think MTV might actually be more interested in a process that included injuires and the like. Would Survivor be the same without the demanding physical trails? Isn't that why Big Brother tanked? Its hard to defend a multinational conglomerate because there are so many spin doctors with so many ulterior motives that no matter what they catch on film-even if its all positive, they are bound to find a way to twist "reality". Maybe somethings are best left out of the glare of the video light.