Re: Re: I agree
 

Truth is that many fraternity chapters who have gone "dry" have actually grown in size. Some haven't. I suppose it depends on how pre-disposed the members are to drinking.

I do believe this, though. If chapters don't go dry, the cost of Risk Management, including insurance, will price us right out of existance.

That is, if the terrible publicity of alcohol abuse, deaths and hazing don't do it first.

I have long been an advocate of lowering the beer drinking age to 18 again, but that doesn't change the dynamics of dry housing. It has to happen, and it will if the fraternity system is to survive.

Now, since a large number of the insurance claims for fraternities are caused by sorority and other women, I wonder if any have wondered what the effect of no fraternities could have on our Greek sisters.

Food for thought, anyway.

There is an evolution element to greek life that has ensured not only its existance but its growth since its birth in 1776 (and earlier if you consider elder non-greek orgs). This is just another step in that process that makes us stronger. If we would like to pass this legacy on to our children, grandchildren, and even further down the line we must evolve and realize that the focus on alcohol in the greek system is killing ALL of us.
It doesn't matter if you are from a chapter who is currently dry, or has never had a single inccident involving alcohol...the outside world groups all GLO's together. When one chapter, be it local, a national, or an international, makes a mistake we all pay. Through rush, retention, and respect on our campuses, the media, and the world at large. All things that do not evolve eventually go extinct.

If you look at the founding of your respective fraternities and sororities you will find many noble values, principles, and causes that inspired your great organizations. I'm sure that no ritual or ceremony written by your founders, who dreamed that the group they worked so hard to create would continue long after they're gone, seeks to pass down the less noble elements that seem to plague our chapters today. Look back at the real stories and legends of your GLO, the one's where the true meanings of your houses are reflected...where are those stories today? They are replaced by stories of drunkeness, distruction, disrespect, and death. Those great things that we all STILL do: philanthropy, academic excellence, involvement, brotherhood, sisterhood, the list goes on...they are all overshadowed and will be until we remove the root of the problem. We need to get back to our foundings.

Do not suppose to disguise alcohol as a vital element of brotherhood or sisterhood. It only taints and poisens the real positive influence that a fraternity or sorority can have on the men and women who find the deeper meaning of being a member.

I'm not going to kid myself, I drank, and I still drink. I'm not anti alcohol. It has a time and place in society. But the fraternities and sororities are not where it should consistantly be found as the root of so many problems. Removing alcohol from the house is a step in the right direction. I can tell you that my house went from "damp" to dry while I was an undergrad and while there was some resistance in the beginning the benefits in the end made the short struggle worth it. But it takes more than just an exercise in chapter house prohibition...our collective attitudes about alcohol and the role it plays in our fraternities and sororities needs to change. These attitudes took over a couple hundred years to form and will take years to change but we need to start somewhere now. We may not have a few more hundred years left to evolve again. It can be done.

Education, not prohibition, is the key. All the original prohibition did was make criminals of many law abiding citizens - which is exactly what the prohibition for ages 18-20 is doing now. And banning alcohol from a house does nothing for the safety of the members. It is only for the safety of the organization.

Think about it. Are the majority of the people you know who drink or drank underage bad people? Do they lie, cheat, steal or do other unlawful things? Have any of them ever been in trouble with the law?

Banning alcohol from fraternities wouldn't have kept this girl alive. She wanted to drink and it sounds like she wouldn't have stopped until she found somewhere to do so.

The more fraternities and sororities ban alcohol instead of educate its members on how to handle it, the more we support this unjust law.

p.s. Did anyone else read this "diary" and think "Laura Palmer"?

You know . . . even the hobbits from the lord of the rings liked to tie one on . .. and they still managed to defeat the dark lord and destroy the one ring . . oh they smoked also.

Winston Churchill was a heavy drinker. Likewise was General Grant during the civil War.

When some of Lincoln's teetotaler advisors brought it up, Lincoln's reply was, It must be a good brand of whiskey . . .

But wait, Adolph Hitler was against alcohol and didn't drink . . .

The effects of alcohol on the human body are well known, and have been well known for probably 100 years. It does not take a genius to figure out that if you drink yourself into a stupor, you could seriously injure yourself, or someone else. Yes, alcohol education programs are important, and we need to have them. Perhaps we can all squeeze one in before the next formal, or weekend kegger?

Education only gets us so far, especially in a culture where people are encouraged to make bad choices. The problem with many greeks is that we support and enable this culture. No, the problem did not begin with us, and will not end with us either, but we are clearly part of the problem, and we are destroying ourselves.

At a minimum, alcohol needs to be removed from chapter houses and chapter sponsored events. Fair or not, the drinking age is 21, and most of our members cannot drink legally. But mostly, the greeks need to change their culture around alcohol, and their view that it is a necessity for their existence. If all we feel we can offer incoming freshman is access to illegal alcohol, and that's all we think they are interested in, we are all in deep sh-t.

Re: Re: Re: I agree
 

Nice try of transferring the blame to the women.

Over a hundred years ago the women said "we're not going to use chapter funds for alcohol & we're not going to allow alcohol in our houses."

The men's groups said, "Okay, we'll have the parties at our houses."

I agree that the women are just as much a part of this problem as the men are -- we attend the parties, but both sexes need to be a part of the solution.

I also think that the drinking age should be 18.

It's funny. I grew up with people whose parents were Italian, Austrian, French, etc. Their parents gave them a small glass of wine with dinner on special occasions. They learned that alcohol was something to enhance a meal not something to abuse. Making alcohol forbidden makes it much more attractive and tempting.

I think that binge drinking might be a way for people to self-medicate or blow off steam. Teens and young adults are under tremendous stress, and some really don't have coping skills so they drink. I also think that education can help, and education begins at home. Children learn by example from their parents.

I totally agree. I was allowed to drink in high school. By allowing me to do so, my parents showed me that within reason, alcohol is fine. My friends whose parents wouldn't allow them to drink went crazy when they hit college, just because alcohol was forbidden and desirable.

Re: Re: Re: Re: I agree
 

No question about it. I'm not attempting to "blame" women at all -- just stating a fact that any Risk Management expert will tell you. No transference here.

We're the idiots for realizing the problem, and still allowing it to go on.

But, my question was, should the Fraternity System (Men) collapse, what effect would that have on sororities?

This isn't a "he said, she said," topic.

Condescending comments that lump all your fellow Greeks into one mass show you to be part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I agree
 

No doubt about it -- it's a package deal. I know of no co-ed campus that has a Panhellenic system without fraternities. Seems like when Colby College (Maine) banned the fraternities...sororities went too.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I agree
 

They'd be gone.

I've heard some sorority women say that we should "remove" ourselves from whatever troubles the men may be having. I find this asinine. We have only contributed to the problem by not taking part of the burden on ourselves and setting the men up as our "suppliers." It makes for a lot of social inequality, resentment, and dangerous situations.

I agree wholeheartedly. Very well-said, mcellpe.

Lets reframe the question so that we can test our rationality.

When it comes to drinking does Greek Life, as a sample, reflect the tendencies of mainstream college students?

For example: Do mainstream college students not drink and greeks do drink?

Do greeks drink so much more than mainstream college students that they constitute a social fringe?

Because if Greeks are representive samples of college students, then there is no genuine problem . . . just a series of PC labels.

If that were true, the only real problem is that Greeks are singled out and punished for what everyone else is also doing.

In which case, as Greeks, why do we have our panties in a bunch about this?

We are becoming much like an abused person that believes they merit their abuse.

I wonder at you Greeks that have jumped on the self-abuse bandwagon . . . why would you believe your organizations and members merit abuse for engaging in behaviors that are generally considered by our society to be acceptable and are engaged in frequently by our peers?

Those of you that have subscrribed to this viewpoint are major contributors to Greeks being socially defensive.

Your Chamberlain like passive acceptance of anything college administrators are willing to dish out in the name of alcohol control has resulted in you hanging your brothers and sisters out to dry.

But hey, and here sarcasm is intended, some of you would kick out your members for shacking, or being sexually expressive. :p

JAMES YOU ROCK SO SO MUCH.

Although for a minute, I thought you were referring to Richard Chamberlain, not Neville Chamberlain. ;)