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Quote:

Originally posted by Ideal08:
Soror AKA2D'91, I agree with your posts. None of us know what people do behind closed doors. The pastor marrying you in Jesse's place could be doing any and everything behind closed doors that you know nothing about. And later for the "if I don't know then what difference would it make?" because it is still the same principle. You don't KNOW how people in your wedding party regard the sacraments of marriage. All we know is what we see and what we are told. Unless you are a part of it, YOU DON'T KNOW. You don't really know if the maid of honor or best man is cheating on her/his spouse. What it all boils down to is FAITH and TRUST. You trust that you KNOW the people in your wedding party, and that they respect the institution of marriage. You have FAITH that the minister who is marrying you respects the institution of marriage. What it sounds like to me, you don't have FAITH that God can do what He said he could, and that is cleanse us of our sins. IF Jesse has repented, he has been washed FREE of his sin. God has let it go, why are we still holding on?????

As far as who we take advice from, just because we don't do something does not mean we don't know how. Would I take contraceptive advice from a teenage mother? Probably--she has probably learned the MOST from her mistake. My mother always told me that sometimes you have to learn from other people's mistakes, because you won't live long enough to make them all on your own. Who are we to discount people based on their experiences and mistakes??? Would you let a theif be your investment counselor? This type of mentality means that we don't believe in rehabilitation. When you go to an investment banker, do you have her/him give you their criminal background? YOU DON'T KNOW. My pastor is a reformed drug addict (Carla, am I right?). He used to follow Satan for a living. And now, he is leading souls to Christ. Should we all just get up and walk out of church because of his past experiences? Because that is exactly what we are doing to Jesse, persecuting him for his mistakes and past experiences.

Holding people accountable for their actions and passing judgement are two totally different things. Regardless of if your are judging Jesse the Man or Jesse the Reverend, the fact of the matter is, you are still passing judgement. Period. And GOD said, judge not lest ye be judged. Period. I can agree with you in saying that this is a single case. That being true, you have to hold Jesse accountable based on his position. Clarification: At our jobs, we are held accountable based on our responsiblities as outlined in the employee handbook. How we are reprimanded is also outlined in the employee handbook. So, in Jesse's case, in holding Jesse the Reverend accountable, we must do so by The Word. It is The Word that dictates to us that we should not pass judgement. Refusing to pass judgement is NOT a cop-out, it is OBEYING CHRIST. So if obeying Christ is a cop-out, then I'm copping out everyday.

Not excusing your sins nor anyone elses. Is that the same thing as not forgiving? "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who have trespassed against us." God won't cleanse us of our sins if we don't forgive other people for their sins.

Just my .08

Jesse's sins are not for me to forgive. They are for God to forgive. I have heard several ministers speak about that you can forgive and forget but that still does not mean that you continue to keep those people in your presence.

I'm not telling people how they are supposed to interpret the Bible because I am not in a position to do so. But I do feel that people misinterpet the whole judging others things. If we all call ourselves spiritual regardless of which religion, how can we stand by constantly and condone those actions that directly conflict with what you are trying to uphold. Judging to me is when you hold yourself in a higher regard than another. That is wrong. However holding someone responsible for their own actions is not in any way judging.

We all are going to make decisions that are not the best for our lives. But that is what life is. Risks, choices, decisions. That is why you must be very careful and try to be spirit led when doing anything. I cannot be mad if I have constatnly stolen things from my family and friends and then one day say I am sorry and have changed and expect them to trust that I will never steal from them again. Each person has to live with the consequences of their actions. Every person has at least some power to help determine how others will peceive them. If you want to be known as a respectable person, then you'll act in a respectable manner. If you want to be know as a liar, then you'll tell blatant lies that people know not to be true. If you want to be the town whore, then you'll stand on a downtown corner where everyone can see you waiting for men to come pick you up. All I'm saying is we must always be mindful of our actions and the choices we make as others will perceive us based on them.

Should you live your life for others? Not completely. But God did put billions of us here together. We're not each here alone. I believe he wants us to learn not only from Him but also from each other. How we live our lives and conduct ourselves may affect people more than we know.

[This message has been edited by DST Love (edited February 09, 2001).]

DST LOVE and 411: Finally, someone who understands the difference. I don't believe that any of us are moralizing, least of all me. Jesse would be welcome at my reception though. He can join the Bruhs when we party hop to Atomic Dog. You know, "a Dawg that chases tail will be a busy dawg, a horny dawg....."

[This message has been edited by DoggyStyle82 (edited February 09, 2001).]

Hola ladies of DST.

No, Jesse would not be presiding over my nuptials, for the reasons previously stated by Doggystyle82 (On my goodness, we agree), DST Love and the411. I wonder if people would be so liberal in their thinking if Rev. Jesse Jackson was involved in sexual misconduct with a minor instead of adultery. Does the crime make a difference?

PS. Doggystyle82, stop deleting your posts. That is so aggravating! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by MIDWESTDIVA (edited February 09, 2001).]

Hi everyone!
I'm new to the site.

I have read over the previous posts and I gave the question a lot of consideration.

Honestly, my family and friends would not care how much I paid to have the Good Rev. preside over the nuptials http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif, they would still clown me and my fiance for considering prestige over principle.

I understand that none of us are perfect and that no one has the right to judge, we *know* that Rev. Jackson intentionally stepped out of his marriage and to me, he would have no business standing before me and my loved ones with "the power *vested* in him pronouncing us husband and wife."

Just my opinion, y'all.

My opinion... I would still allow the Rev. to perform my wedding. The reason is first, we do not have the right to judge anyone, even if we know what was done by the Rev. was morally and biblically wrong. Secondly, I follow in the footsteps and the word of the Lord. Not another human being. The Rev.'s actions are not going to rub off on me simply because he would be performing my wedding ceremony. And I would definitely not worry about who disapproves of my decision. It would be my marriage anyway. If they don't like it, they have the choice not to attend my wedding. As long as I am strong in MY beliefs and faith, nothing else matter.

Would you stop going to the church of your choice just because there are MANY hypocrits that worship in the same church as you? Probably not. We all know that in every church, there are deacons, ushers, ministers, worshippers, etc... who lack morals. If someone's actions decided what I wanted to do in my life, I would probably never get anywhere.

This is simply my opinion.

Quote:

Originally posted by kissy324:
Would you stop going to the church of your choice just because there are MANY hypocrits that worship in the same church as you? Probably not. We all know that in every church, there are deacons, ushers, ministers, worshippers, etc... who lack morals. If someone's actions decided what I wanted to do in my life, I would probably never get anywhere.

This is simply my opinion.

To me, there is a HUGE difference between WORSHIPPING with sinners like myself and being LEAD and INSTRUCTED by a man who does not take both his ministry and marriage vows with the Lord seriously. I say instructed because that is what the minister who presides over marriage vows does. I cannot imagine him saying to me and my husband-to-be, "Do you promise to forsake all others?" I'd have to say to him, "Did you?"

Quote:

Actually, I wouldn't attend a church in which I KNEW there were "MANY hypocrits" that worship there, but that's just me. Again, this question raises the difference between KNOWING and NOT KNOWING; and, it is specifically focused on the person who presides over the ceremony and what his/her role symbolizes. So, I totally agree with DST Love! Jesse's role is to teach and to lead by example, so it DOES make a huge difference. In many churches, pastors are also pre-wedding counselors who determine if the couple is ready. Like the wedding party, the pastor's willingness to marry a couple is a show of his support of the union. How can Jesse determine my readiness, when he and his wife could use a few counseling sessions themselves? It's like that gospel song says: "Sweep around your own front door" I can't help you if I don't have myself together.

I'm with you, DoggyStyle-- Jesse can come to the wedding, and he can have a slice of my Delta cake (red velvet, of course), but he couldn't be the one who read our vows to us.

As far as this prestige thing goes, why would I even let a person preside over my nuptials if I and my fiance didn't already have a personal relationship with him? But hey-- that's just me.

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