I think some of us aren't quite "getting it". Do you know why the media are selling sex to kids? Because they know that many moms and dads aren't home all the time so they can control them. With dual income families, and big box stores who are able to sell fashionable clothing and other items at an affordable price, most families are able to afford these things for their kids. It's a little harder to say "we can't afford it" now than it was before, and with all these confusing rules on what constitutes child abuse and what doesn't, some parents don't really bother to punish their kids if they throw a temper tantrum. Let's just say that the kids are just too spoiled.

Sorry, the "myth" of the single family income was for many North Americans (and Europeans, and ...) was always that - a myth. The lower class has always had both parents working. ALWAYS. It's just no one used to care about the lower class.

As for the rest - yea, some parents suck. We should expect better. But as for the clothes. My family never bought me expensive clothing and I sometime paid dearly for it. I was that kid that who went to a "rich kid school" but didn't dress like a rich kid. But they tought me there were bigger and better things in life than clothes so most of the time, I just didn't care. eta: and I really feel most children should be raised similarly. That last bit was the point, and I left it out

Umm... and sorry for turning this into a Taualumna against the world thread. You know I still adore you right?

Kappaloo, the "lower classes" of the past had a lot less money than they do today (before the government caved in and assisted them, the only help they got, if they were lucky was from the church or a secular organization. That wasn't really enough) Today, unless one is homeless, one probably has plumbing, heat, and probably a lot more luxuries than they did in the past. What they have today might very well have been considered "middle class" luxuries 50-60 years ago. If you want to know what REAL lower class is, then you should talk to my dad. In post WWII Hong Kong, many families of four or five or even more lived in rooms the size of a typical university residence room......imagine that...FIVE PEOPLE. And many of us complain that our rooms are cramped when we only have one roommate. Often, 50 people would share one bathroom. Today, that kind of housing would be shut down by the government because the standards are deemed too low.

Your parents sound like good people, limiting what you can buy when it came to clothes. Good for them! :)

I'm not going to discuss feminism right now.

I see little girls wearing clothes that I would be embarrassed to wear in front of my mother, and I'm in my thirties. I don't mean 15 year olds. I mean grammar school children and pre-teens. Parents need to be responsible for their children and what they wear. A nine year old dressing like Britney Spears is inappropriate.

I think that it is the role of parents to lay down a strong foundation for their children. The world seems so eager to corrupt them at an increasingly younger age. Sadly, many parents abdicate their responsibilities or want to be friends with their children instead of guiding them into adulthood. Parents need to prepare their children by discussing choices and actions and consequences with them. They cannot control them when they become teens, but parents can arm them with information as well as set an example.

I'll go ahead and age myself here. I was 16 in 1992, the height of the grunge era. I shopped the men's department for corduroy. Cute and girly was a baby doll dress with opaque stockings. We showed no skin, we layered our t-shirts, provocative was not an issue. Today, the little girls are wearing hip huggers and heels and trying to look like Britney but I strongly believe this is just the whims of fashion. The pendulum will swing back the other direction. In fact, I think it's already starting to.

Eh- the feminism thing would take forever to type, lets just say I feel that feminism is more or less causally unrelated to what James was asking.

My daughter will pretty much be allowed to wear what she wants, once she's old enough to understand the consequences of portraying yourself a certain way. (I'm thinking around the age of 16.) But she'll never go out of the house with her ass hanging out of her skirt, or wearing a see through shirt, whether she's 12 or 30. I'd hope that among other things, I'll teach her how to dress. There are sexy/attractive clothes, and stripper/trashy clothes. My daughter will know the difference. Along that same vein, she'll wear appropriate clothes to church and family functions, whether she's the stereotypical prom queen or a goth. If she's overweight or stick skinny, she won't be styling clothes 3 sizes too small for her. Again, it's just the concept of wearing what's appropriate.

That being said, if I saw my 13 y.o. (you know, "junior high"er) with a belly button ring, I'd rip it out.

Oh, when they're 30 or so :)

Obviously I know I have no control over that, my mom and I get into fights all the time and I'm 22. :) All I'm saying is that I would hope that I teach her how to dress in a flattering way...and if she doesn't get it by the time she's 30 then there was probably a mix up at the hospital.

First, in defense of Taualumna, I thank all the pioneering females of the women's movement who have allowed me the opportunities I have today. However, I think that oversexualization has been kind of a 'side effect' of that movement. I believe this is the point that she's trying to make. Women were given more freedoms, and along with that came the freedom to dress or act ANY way we chose. Does that make sense?

Cuaphi, you took me back! I went back to one of my little brother's football games in 1996, and I was shocked at how the girls were dressing...pretty much like a hooker. While I worry about what affect those girl's attire choices may have, I worry more about my son! LOL! While oftentimes parental supervision is lacking (I'm a teacher, I know.) I've also seen a lot of parents not really seeing anything wrong with it. Somebody's buying the clothes for them!

Finally, if I have a daughter, she will be approved for departure from the house.

aj

Interesting thread.

I don't think I would ever let a daughter of mine wear an outfit that screams to the world "Look everyone, I'm a sex object!" Nor am I going to make her wear a habit. Nonetheless, any daughter of mine will surely be a ravishing beauty just like her mother, and therefore turn heads regardless of how she's dressed. :cool:

With younger kids, mom or dad has to take them shopping, and that means mom or dad can lay down the law as to what is appropriate and what is not. Sadly, this isn't as easy as it used to be, both in terms of finding appropriate clothing and in terms of dealing with the kid's temper tantrums when you won't buy her a micro-miniskirt. When the kids get a little older, you can explain to them why you won't buy them the hip huggers and midriff-baring tops.

Teenagers usually pick out their own clothes and have their own money to spend (from an allowance or job income) so mom and dad get less say. Hopefully by that age, the "don't dress like a hooker" message has gotten through, and the kids will be choosing outfits that say "Look at me, I'm a young woman/man" but not "Wouldn't these clothes look good on your bedroom floor?". At some point you have to trust your kids to make their own decisions about how they will dress, just like you have to trust them to make their own decisions about everything else in life. As adults, they will have to make these decisions on their own every day. As teenagers, they can start making them, subject to parental veto.

I practically grew up in a convent :rolleyes: so I will most likely give my hypothetical future children a lot more leeway than I had. But there are plenty of outfits I've seen in stores and on people around town, that if my hypothetical future 16-year-old daughter were to try to leave the house wearing, I would be sending her upstairs to put on the rest of her clothes. :p The same goes for my hypothetical future 16-year-old son - if he wears something inappropriate, he gets sent upstairs to change, too.

I haven't read this entire thread so I don't know if this has been said, but a few of the earlier post about feminism are confusing feminism with RADICAL feminism.
Feminism was never about burning your bra, and not shaving your legs and bashing men left right and centre. It was about having choices. It was about choosing to stay home and raise a family or choosing to go to work. It was about equal pay for equal work. feminsim is not the downfall of society. It's not to blame for over sexualized kids. We have to stop lumping feminsits into one giant catagory of extremists.
I'll admit I have been guilty of this. I've never liked to be called a feminist because I don't want people to lump me in with the radicals. But I suppose I am a feminist because I am all for choice. I want all women to be able to choose how they live their lives. If that means "traditional"...stay at home mum, 2.4 kids and a white picket fence, by all means go for it, if that's your choice. If you want a career and no kids. Super! I want you to have that.
Anyway, enough of my rant.

I don't think that's fair. The government did cave in. The welfare state was started in this country during WW2. It was started to help everyone. Times were tough, even for the middle class. It wasn't a cave in, it was to help everyone in a dire time. The welfare state was never stopped though. Yes there are abuses, but it's not because the government decded it would be alright for people to be lazy.

From the time I was old enough to dress myself, my parents always allowed me to pick out my own outfits and dress any way I wanted to.

Before I left the house in a not-so-classy outfit, my mom would always tell me to think about what image I was presenting of myself. Every time she said that, I wound up changing clothes.

My parents knew that I would rebel against direct control, but if I was given the option to choose, I would be more likely to listen to them. I will raise my children the same way.

I was in Target this weekend and was browsing the shoe section when I saw a mother with two girls doing some [presumable] school shopping. The older of the two girls (who couldn't have been more than 12) was trying on black patent leather pumps with cut-out toes and 3" heels. The younger (who was maybe 8 or 9) was trying on white platform sandals. They were wanted those shoes not to emulate mom, they were trying them on because that's what they thought looked cool. I was shocked. This girl who was 13 years younger than me wanted her mother to buy her shoes for school that were shoes I would have worn for work or a night out to the bars! That was a bit much for me. I don't know if the mother got them or not, but I know I wouldn't have.

I agree that it's more a product of the media than feminism. You have a 13-year-old singer [JoJo] who is wearing high heels and belly tops in her video because that's what some 30-year-old stylist put her in. The media is taking fashion that is geared towards adults and putting them on teenagers and that sends a dangerous message. At a time when kids are very impressionable and trying to discover themselves, they are very open to suggestive advertising. They don't want to be seen as little kids anymore, they want to look like their idols but they don't understand that's not how JoJo or Britney would normally dress for school or just hanging out with friends (well, maybe Britney would). It makes me nervous when I hear high school girls say they love Sex and the City because I don't think the majority of them are emotionally or mentally mature enough to understand it. It is okay for children to act, talk, think and look their age, I just wish the media would understand that.

That being said, I will allow my children to make their own decisions, but if I don't feel something is age-appropriate, I will let them know. Daughters can start wearing minimal make-up in middle school, with me teaching them proper application. If they want to spend their own money on trendy clothes, they can, but if I'm buying them, I will stick to versitile, classic pieces. I very rarely ever buy into fashion trends, so if my daughters were to look to me for fashion advice, they would see [hopefully] a classic, well-put-together woman. Then again, they might just see a big nerd who dresses 30 years behind the times!

My children are not having sex. Ever! (Unless I want grandbabies) :p ;)

I heard a quote on the CBC the other day that said in 1901, the rate of single-parent-households in Canada was something like 13%. In over 100 years, the rate has only gone up one percent. So much for blaming feminists and changing social mores.

But back to the original question: I'm not a mom (nor will I ever be), but I think that if I were, I wouldn't wait until my daughter expressed an interest in sexuality before I started teaching her responsible ways of presenting herself. I'd try to find age-appropriate ways to teach her how to deal with the changes she's going through, how to critically view images that are presented in the media, and ways that she can take pride in her image and appearance without making her into a junior strumpet. But you know, friends have more influence over parents at a certain age, so I'd also make sure I get to know her friends and their home situation fairly well. One of the scariest movies I've seen in recent years was the movie "Thirteen". If you're a parent of girl children and you haven't seen it, rent it ASAP.