Co-Sign

Actually that's incorrect. Just because you are born somewhere that doesn't make you that ethnicity. Her parents are Portugese that makes her Portugese. She has an African nationality, which is totally different.

For example a kid who is born on an American army base in Germany w/ two Russian-American parents would be American by Nationality, Russian by Ethnicity.

Edited to say that neither ethnicity nor nationality necessarily determine race.

double post

Umm, markmywords...how are you saying anything different than what I am saying??? You are proving my point. Like I said, your ethnicity can be just about anything you want it to be and it can include any or all aspects of your being. She is very much at liberty to call herself Portugese American or Portugese African American, or Jewish Portugese African American or whatever she chooses. And that is my point. Ethnicity is not defined any stringent rules. It is almost limitless.

I am not agreeing with you. Your ethnicity cannot be anything you want it to be. Just b/c you live in Africa that doesn't make you African by ethnicity. Your ethnicity is your ethnic background. Where your ancestors come from. You can change nationality like the wind but you can't change your people.

That's the difference b/w an Afrikaaner and an African. Both live in Africa but the Afrikaaneers have mostly Dutch roots. So their ethnicity would be Dutch even if their nationality is South African.

*reaching for nearest reference...dictionary.com*

eth·nic·i·ty ( P ) Pronunciation Key (th-ns-t)
n.
Ethnic character, background, or affiliation.
An ethnic group.
ethnicity

n : an ethnic quality or affiliation resulting from racial or cultural ties; "ethnicity has a strong influence on community status relations"



An affiliation can be anything with which you associate yourself. Definitions of background and culture are equally broad. Therefore, ethnic groups are constantly overlapping. So, despite common belief, ethnicity is extremely broad in definition and is not limited to what you have defined it to be.

Dictionaries are never good references for debates b/c they don't capture the full essence of any word. But...


We will never agree. I just don't see how you can argue that someone can move somewhere and claim that culture. If that were true since I used to live around a lot of Jamaicans and like Chicken patties w/ Coco bread and occasionally listen to reggae then I'm West Indian by culture right? Heck no and I'm sure they would let me know that.

Ethnic groups do overlap, but moving to a new country and then claiming that ethnicity is not one of the ways it does. Heinz-Kerry lived in Africa for a period of time--so what. I lived in the south for five years that doesn't make me southern.

When people say that cultural ties also make up ethnicity they are correct. You can have two Puerto Ricans of different races who have the same ethnic background because they participate in the same cultural heritage.

For Heinz-Kerry I think you are stretching.

Well, I don't know where else I would go to get a working definition of a term outside of a book that defines terms, such as a dictionary.

Anywho, you said "since I used to live around a lot of Jamaicans and like Chicken patties w/ Coco bread and occasionally listen to reggae then I'm West Indian by culture right?" and I will clarify your statement by adding that culture is not a noun used to define people, but, the way of life of a people. Therefore, if you did live around a lot of Jamaicans and like Chicken patties w/ coco bread and occasionally listen to reggae music, and you assimilated other aspects of the Jamaican culture, then, by all means claim it if you wish. (I know many persons of all nationalities who do) We might just be flattered. ;)

But, on a serious note, this discussion is going nowhere. I have given you the evidence to support my argument and we still disagree, so, let's not wear each other out. :)

Agreed

and that is how you agree to disagree...no name calling or anything.. lol. A GC FIRST!!! *just jokes, people*

anyway, this proves a point that labels are just that. Mrs. Heinz-Kerry is an African American of Portuguese descent. Does that make her black? No. I am black, but I dont consider myself African American. I can trace Native American ancestry on both sides of my family. I consider myself an American. period (but i check Black and other on forms when I need to).

A guy at my school did that - checked "African-American" instead of "white" since he was born in some country in Africa. It was so crazy b/c when he got to school, he was "white" for all intents and purposes but he was "African-American" on the application. My entering class was less than 5% of the population (there were supposedly nine of us out of almost 200) and we looked for that 9th African-American. It was so crazy to find out who it was...guess he wasn't joining the black law students association. smh

The craziest thing about it was that I don't think that he was confused b/c all of the other categories were "race" categories so why would they throw in a random category like "African-American" if it wasn't meant to indicate a race as well? I was kind of blown away by the whole thing.

SC