We are not using laws to force our religious beliefs on others- much like the religious right tries to do. (Such as Iowa's Republicans passing the "choose life" license plates where the money for the plate goes only to institutions that are anti-abortion or our state senator Veenstra saying that since the bible says homosexuality is wrong that the state should not allow same-sex couples to adopt)

So: yes on laws, no on forcing our religious beliefs

So as the spokesman for all liberals you can say that you don't do that. Wow. I'm honored you've come to GC to speak with us plebians.

Do you not think that many liberals consider it a moral as well as religious duty to provide health care to the elderly? Housing and aid for the unemployed and unemployable?

Do liberal politicians not craft and support laws that force everyone else in the nation to foot the bill for these people? How is that not pushing your own religious agenda?

I don't deny that Conservatives often try to legislate their moral code and religious beliefs. But the left side of the aisle is not immune to that by any means.

A> I aint no spokesperson- please dont assume I am.
B> I havent seen anyone on the left side of the political spectrum lately using the bible or God to say why they are doing something- but I have heard Bush say God told him to attack Iraq...
~J
(usually if people are hearing voices we institutionalize them)

Released into Congressional Record, February 12, 1999

Mr. BYRD. Mr. Chief Justice:

I think my country sinks beneath the yoke,

It weeps, it bleeds,

And each new day,

a gash is added to her wounds.

I am the only remaining Member of Congress who was here in 1954 when we added the words 'under God' to the Pledge of Allegiance. That was on June 7, 1954. One year from that day we added the words 'In God We Trust' to the currency and coin of this country. Those words were already on some of the coins. But I shall always be proud to have voted to add those words, 'under God' and 'In God We Trust.' They mean much to us today as we meet here.

(The above is from CNN)
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stori...ents/byrd.html

You should have known I'd pull out the Robert Byrd on you.

"Under God" and "In God We Trust" are 2 intrusions of religion into politics. The Catholics used the backdrop of "fighting the Godless Communists" to get them in. It was a stupid move and those words should be removed.

What kind of source did you get that from?

THe Knights of Columbus, a Catholic group, were the lobbyists for adding God into the pledge and currency.

The Catholics?!?

You've said some deluded things on here, but that'll have to take the cake. Yes, it was part of the Catholic conspiracy headed by ROBERT BYRD, former KKK member.

As a Catholic who knows a few things about church history, I find your assertion to be hilarious.

Name an influential Catholic politician in 1952. You're a secondary history ed major, right?

The Knights of Columbus had apparently in 1951 instituted their own version of the Pledge of Allegiance for use at their meetings that contained the words "under God." Seeing that the time was right, they enlisted the cooperation of the American Legion in lobbying the Executive branch and the Congress to add "under God" to the pledge. Ignoring the Constitution and caving in to the expediency of the moment, President Eisenhower expressed support for the measure, and it was passed on Flag Day, June 14, 1954.

http://home.flash.net/~lbartley/au/issues/godtrust.htm

edit: and it wasnt until 1960 that the Catholics through Vatican II decided that when they become a majority in a nation that they would not force their religious fews on others through changing the government to a theocracy.

And if you really believe that liberals never legislate religion, how do you reconcile Robert Byrd's fairly recent statement with your belief?

I'm waiting for you to actually address that instead of blaming it on the Catholics.

It takes 51 Senators to approve something like that.

How many of those Senators were Catholic?

he's old. Old people believe in religion and use it to justify things.

There you go with your generalizations again. I thought liberals were more enlightened than that. Now you're belittlling old people and making stereotypical comments.

It was in 1952 when he voted for that measure. He wasn't old then. He's a liberal now, probably one of the most liberal. Other than sweeping generalizations about senior citizens, please reconcile your beliefs with his statement.

What is it that you have against Catholics and old people? Is that a liberal thing?

I have nothing against Catholics except for when they intrude on the seperation of Church and State- for that I hold big beef with anyone who dares to do so.
I do not want to emigrate from the US to lands that hold greater freedoms but if our nation continues eroding away the seperation of church and state and if I continue to be a second class citizen (yay for the Senate not moving towards a Constitutionalized second class citizenry)- then I will have to leave.

Please justify your argument that liberals do not legislate morality in light of what Robert Byrd said without hating on old people. I'm still waiting.