To tell someone they can't drink at all while they pledge is ridiculous. It's unenforcable.
It's like putting someone on social probation because of poor grades. It's understandable why one would do that, but it's not really effective. You can ban them from sorority functions, but if you think it's going to completely stop them from going out and partying, you're deluding yourself.
If you want to make the pledging period dry, then you have to make sure that no sorority events involve alcohol and that also means no participating in/co-sponsoring events that involve alcohol.
But ultimately, if you have a new member that is of legal age, she wants a drink, she's going to have one.

Yeah you're right I shouldn't differentiate between "good hazing and bad hazing".

In my sorority only the pledges abstain from drinking during the process, actives can drink. There was one thing that I forgot to mention in my last post our pledges have to wear a necklace and pin at all times during the process, the only exceptions are showers and swimming, so they have sorority nalia on at all times.

My question to you is does your sorority allow PNMs to drink in letters?

Why is it that you don't consider the "NO BOYS, NO BOOZE" during Inspiration Week hazing?

Couldn't it be said that your nationals is actually partaking in hazing it's members during that week by putting those restrictions on your life?

Granted, I don't know that much about NPC rush and have only a limited knowledge of how Inspriration Week works. We do have sororities that do I-Week.

Yes, our process is "dry" and as you stated with I-Week you all do it voluntarily, so do our pledges as did our founders and charters of my chapter and every chapter withing my sorority.

That's just my .02

Shoudn't someone that has poor grades be on social probation?
Last time I checked most NPC, NHPC, NALFO, NIC have a gpa requirement that has to be followed and enforced.




I was one of those new members that is of legal age and there were many times were I wanted a drink and could of totally had one, since I lived in an apartment on campus and most of the actives lived together in one dorm, it would have been soooo easy, but I knew that I would be breaking a trust and that did not sit well with me.

No one in our sorority is allowed to drink in letters. We also don't smoke or cuss. Phi Mu Fraternity does not promote No Boys, No Booze; it is a chapter tradition. At any time, the chapter could vote (actually it prob. wouldn't even require a vote, just a decision of the new member educator) to not do No Boys, No Booze. We choose to do it as a chapter (that means initiated sisters and soon-to-be initiated sisters) to keep the focus on spending time with your sisters, not spending time with your boyfriend or at a bar. The guidelines are not really harsh, and it is governed by the honor system. It is not hazing because we as an entire chapter CHOOSE to do this. Although I have not encountered this, theoretically if there was a girl in the chapter who felt uncomfortable with participating, she would not have to because there is no enforcement. The point is that we don't make the new members do anything that the sisters themselves do not do. If the pledges are not drinking throughout the pledge period, but the initiated sisters are, I don't consider that voluntary.

I am not questioning your process; even though I said there is no "good" hazing or "bad" hazing, I don't think that having a dry pledge period is really all that bad. But... in the scheme of things, any activity where the pledges are doing something that the sisters don't do, or VICE VERSA, in your situation, is hazing.

During my pledging process the only time we were told to anything about alcohol was Bid Night. It was expressed to us that there was to be "No booze, no boys" that night since it is a nite to get to be closer with the girls you are going to be sisters with. All the sister went out that night while we were told to stay home in our rooms and not even allowed to hold conversations with boys. The rest of out pledge process we were never told no alcohol but some of my pledge class got out of control and was making a name for us so we were put on a 3 drink maximum which none of us followed. As for the drinking with letters, none of the sorority chapters on my campus can drink in letters at all. But the whole point that if you do something stupid there is no identifying you directly to the sorority because you don't have letter on is bull. Someone at that party will see you and know you are in a greek organization and say what sorority you are in so it doesn't matter if you drink in letters or not and if you do something stupid in letters or not, people know anyway.

In this situation, I believe that it is an NPC Recruitment guideline that there will be no alcohol or boys at a Bid Day celebration. I know for certain that this is enforced through our College Panhellenic.

No, you're right, people who have poor grades should be on social probabtion, what I really mean by that is, that ultimately, social probabtion won't deter a member from going out and partying, if that's what they really want to do. All that social probabtion means is they cannot participate in their sorority/greeklife events.
If a member wants to go out to the bar on a saturday night with her GDI friends, then she's going to go out and her org can't stop her.

Also, PNM's (in NPC terms) are not yet members of an organization so they do not have letters to wear.

If we're talking about drinking during rush,rush events are dry, but if the a legal PNM wants to go out on a saturday night and have a drink, then she could, because she is not participating in a rush event.

Actually we can't have alcohol at ANY SAI-related events. So yeah, we have dry pledging. :)

I *think* in this thread, we're discussing COMPLETELY dry, as in the pledges are not allowed to drink at ALL. We don't have any drinking in any part of our Phi program either, besides social functions. At these functions, the law prevails- no drinking under 21.

If that is true then why is it that I have read in the Rush Forum that when bid day gifts were handed out PNMS recieved letters from XYZ to wear? I've had friends that pleded(rushed) Pi Phi and were allowed to wear letters, same with GPhiB?

this may be true of Pi Phi, but not of all NPC orgs. In Alpha Gam we were given letters on Bid Day and were encouraged to wear them throughout our New Member period.

PNM and NM (new member) are different.

New Members would be given letters.

Potential New Members have not yet accepted a bid from an organization, so why would they be wearing letters.

On my campus PNM's are asked not to drink the weekend of pref parties or spend time with fraternity men. It is also asked that the sororities do the same. As for NM's we tell they they are absolutely not allowed to drink in letters as we aren't suppose to anyway.

Alcohol is forbidden at all formal recruitment events. Bid Day is considered part of FR for these purposes. So that first day of your new member period would be dry for that reason.

AEPhi's rules regarding alcohol are, I believe, fairly typical for NPC: no alcohol at sorority-sponsored functions (even if co-sponsored with another org that offers to pay for the booze); no drinking while wearing letters or other insignia (including new member pins); all sisters and new members are expected to obey federal, state, local, and campus regulations regarding alcohol. So the new member period isn't dry per se; a NM of legal drinking age may drink outside of sorority events if she wishes. However, most NMs are underage, and since we are expected to obey the law... it pretty much comes down to no booze.

wow.

drinking under age 21 is illegal.

By forbidding new members, all who are under 21, to drink in the presence of a sister, is upholding the law! I dont think ANY national org would cite a chapter for hazing by forbidding new members from drinking during pledging!! It fits the technical definiton of hazing, yes, but its completely different than making new members go on a scavenger hunt alone without the rest of the chapter, or lining up NMs by breast size according to that "Pledged" book. :rolleyes:

and AXO encourages giving letters to NM, but I dont think they said it was hazing not to. Im not too sure about that. I know we didn't, only because no other chapter on our campus did. They could only wear screenprint.