Well I dont really feel like it is my place to say anthing. I know hazing is illegal, but I look at it kinda in a different perspective. If I saw two kids in their car smoking pot, would I call the police because it is illegal? Of course not. The pledges need to do the talking, it involves them, not me.

Two kids smoking pot in a car is a victemless crime, unless they drive under the influence. There is no real moral equivalency.

Knowing about violent hazing and being quiet, is like knowing about a guy next door, who regularly beats the crap out of his wife. If you stay quiet, the violence will almost definitely continue. If you tell the authorities, they may be able to stop it.

Its unfortunate that you are in this position, but if you remain silent, this will almost definitely continue. At least until someone else is hospitalized, or killed. Or until someone else has the courage to step forward.

Ummm....I'd amend #3:

3) You do nothing, and live with the knowledge that nothing will be done. Then, I hope you can live with yourself when the eventual serious injury or death happens.

I'd start with #1, but go to #2 if they are not willing to do anything - your a friend, and his brothers are SUPPOSED to be friends (AND BROTHERS) as well, and I guarantee you it's not supposed to happen this way!

Only brothers treat each other as brothers - these boys are simply sadistic, and, sadly, your friend is going to fall into the same mold unless something drastic is done to save someone's life someday.

Don't take it lightly, or simply think it will just go away - it won't, and you'll have to live with the guilt you'll endure WHEN something seriously wrong occurs. Not if. When.

You can make reports anonymously...they wouldn't even know who reported them. Trust me, any greek life office in the country would investigate allegations such as these very intently.

i can understand both sides of this but i think it boils down to how common or uncommon hazing is at your school. there's so much politics involved depending on who knows what and i'd have to imagine that most schools and universities are very fearful of the publicity and lawsuits, especially since most of the time it's going to be pretty hard to prove unless there's sustained physical injuires or pictures or video. even then it can be impossible to actually prove who did what and to whom, or who had knowledge of it and to what extent. i can see wanting to blow the whistle in order to try to prevent it, but if the groups doing it really want to, it's easy to do it and not get caught, and some groups of people, even considered minor, can create an atmosphere in which the few people out of a larger group who have been hazed and want to report it, can be made fearful of doing so, especially when you're talking about a town or a campus where everyone knows each other and these people have to be able to live amongst each other. believe me, i know it sucks and am in NO WAY condoning hazing, but often times the administrators who could try to crack down on it know about it anyway, and when so many idiots will volunteer to be hazed, it's a big mess and could easily turn into a major burden for one person to try and change it, and in many cases, actually try to change people's morals and free will. it's impossible.

i think there should be more focus on why is there so much hazing anyway - why does our culture seem to promote this attitude in people, either apathy, or loss of identity within group-thinking/image, or sadism? it's really scary to watch the facial expressions of people who are having fun hazing other people.

Hey, gang--I'm an alumni advisor @ 2 Lambda Chi Alpha chapters in Illinois. I'm also a member of AFA, and if you want something to get done the best person to deal w/is the Greek Advisor.

I know that these folks are earnest in their desire to keep things like this from happening on their campuses. Let them know who/what/when/where ASAP.

For those that say the advisors are "just out to get us" or "kick all the Greek houses off campus", I simply reply that the advisors would then be unemployed if there wasn't a Greek community @ that school. Makes sense, eh?

These groups aren't gonna change overnight. I guess it's really like we say in Lambda Chi: Naught without labor. Best of luck...

Fraternally,
Bill Foltz
Illinois State '77

No MATTER WHAT, Common or uncommon it is at a school??????????:mad: That makes it right?

It will be common as long as no one lets it be known or until someone is seriuously injured or maybe dies!:(

What it boils down to is:

Well, I got My Ass Beat, so why cant I do it!:confused:

Yepper, takes real mentality to figure that out doesnt it!:rolleyes:

I am sorry but as boz states what does it prove. I also work with My Brothers at My Alma Mater, and trust me, they know how I feel about Hazing!
I have also vistied many Chapters in My Area and talk with them!

If I find out about it, I will contact Out International and let them know if We as Alums cannot get it straightened out!:mad:

As you can see, We as LXA Brothers feel very strongly about this and rightly so!:cool:

So, use your head, not your butt! ;)

Oh, by the by, you are talking to an ex Police Officer:D

boz, PM me about AFA can you!:)

naglok- Yikes man! That is hazing alright. It looks to be they took an old military hazing tradition called "Blood Wings". If I were you I would talk to your friend about reporting it, or at least to stop this act in future pledged classes.

On AlethiaSi, I understand where she is coming from. Heck, a sorority on this campus put 1 pledge into the hospital w/kidney failure, 1 pledge recieved a broken knuckle, and another pledge had an undisclosed hospital visit :( Our school knows hazing goes on in one shape or another, as long as it doesn't hurt their image they don't care. Majority of their alumni support are Greeks anyway that went through -much worse- then any pledges now go through.

when looking at a widespread problem, you have to make some generalizations. if hazing occurs at school, whether it's regular or an occassional problem, i'm NOT saying that it's right or ok because it's definitely not. what i'm saying is that the person who is accustomed to hazing as a part of their campus life is far less likely to either see it as a problem or feel it's their business to try to stop it. someone whose HS or college experience is devoid of hazing will probably be much more likely to blow the whistle if they're confronted by it, experience it or even hear about it. that's what i meant by "common or uncommon"; if it happens a lot then more people tend to turn a blind eye, as rio_kohitsuji points out.

Please send an unsigned letter to their nationals. They will check it out. If nothing is going on then they won't close the chapter. If something is-then they are giving all greeks a bad name!

Wow... there's a term I haven't heard in a while... but yeah the Canadian military did (and still does) it too... except in some cases it is any badge or mark on your uniform...

Basically for the pin... put in on with no backing and have everyone punch you on in or push it in... hence the blood... I've also seen it with rank badges... except everyone gives you a punch on the arm... everyone (100+).

This is really harsh and really awful. It's hard to take a stand against something that you think is wrong and is not in your own org.
I have seen and heard of hazing events in orgs on my own campus and although they are nowhere near this bad or destructive, I don't know what to do about them.