No, they didn't yank the charter because they started recruiting new members not long after.

I belong to a National Orgnanization & our chapters have free reign to do what they please. As long as they adhere to By-Laws & are not doing anything to give the Fraternity a Bad name there is no problem.

I was in a local before we went international, so I feel like I can say this. If you're in a local and not worried about numbers then you're not worried about the survival and existance of your group. I know that's not the spirit of the quoted post but every org is concerned about maintaining membership. If they aren't proactive, then they simply will not exist.

While some may view national intervention as 'breathing down their neck'--imagine the resources they have if something does go wrong. If you need training on recruitment or a myriad of issues, a national will have your back and get you those resources you need.

Sororities are great--but they are essentially businesses as well. It takes a certain number of members to make things work--its not an arbitrary number from somewhere in the sky. And I've never heard of a national that asked for a group to be at a number that based on analysis wasn't somehow attainable. If there is quota on total on campus, it means you have that potential.

:)

I think it should also be mentioned that this 'breathing down their neck' is often to prevent hazing or other risk management nightmares. When you join a local sorority and you become pres or vp you accept the liablity of that group. they haze, you are personally responsible, very few locals actually have insurance to protect them. The national is often a buffer to prevent major issues.

Locals are a great option for some women, but for others the connections and help of a national is just as vital as the independance that many local member seek. Yes we have oversight, but if we have number issues, we are given help, often a local will die. Yes they don't always understand, but we still have access to resources to help spur new ideas to help ourselves. I came from a 'special' chapter. There were times when AST did not know what to do with us, mostly because of our campus culture. They could not handle seeing HELL written on the house of the local sorority when they came to visit, but they still support our chapter with whatever means they can. That is an amazing asset.

I love being in a National sorority, the local sorority scene is just not for me. I like the bigger picture, the larger meaning to our letters, and that I can move anywhere in the country and have sisters. I think thought that both groups need to stop being afraid of eachother. Locals, need to realize that many women prefer the national oversight and the inherent structure of a national organization. And yes, nationals need to realize that locals are not all running wild. But we all need to come to terms with common issues that face young women not point fingers.

just my 2 cents as people being to fight amongst themselves...

See, I don't think I could handle being in a national...having plege classes of 100 or more. We had a pledge class of 9 girls...each of them wonderful, beautiful, talented. With an active chapter of 17, we are the smallest sorority on campus. The pledge class before mine was 6 girls, the one before that had been 4. But the thing is that we are 83 years old, we went inactive in the early 70's I believe, and then were resurrected in 85, stronger and more rockin' than ever. What I love about our locals is the history they have. Each one is over 80 years old. They all have these incredibly unique traditions and styles that are distinctive to them and really add a certain flavor to Otterbein. 30% of our campus of 3000 is Greek, and we're damn proud.

I love my small chapter. We're hoping for 13 pledges this year, but even if we get 2, i'm sure they'll be damn proud delta kittens through and through!

I think that most of the women on here have mentioned the "breathing down your neck" as a numbers aspect rather than a risk mgmt aspect.

Phoenix - not all national chapters have huge pledge classes - that's mainly in the South. I don't think any sorority, national OR local, in the Northeast is anything like that.

lauralaylin, every single NPC sorority out there has done a recolonization while the old members were still on campus and made them alums. Sometimes it goes well, sometimes it doesn't. They may say that the old members voted to do this, but sometimes it's a case of "either you can vote and say you voted or we will just recolonize you anyway." The charter isn't "yanked" from campus but active membership is "yanked" from the current members.

The main thing is like Little E said, nationals and locals need to learn to respect and work with each other. National Sorority XYZ can't blow into a college full of locals and expect everyone to start doing things their way. If you can't handle the campus culture as it is, you probably should not start a chapter there. By the same token, the locals need to realize all those rules and regs the nationals have are there for a reason.

I also feel that part of understanding is that not all locals are small and not all NPC are huge. My chapter, during my 4 years as an active ranged from 20-30. We were small. We were encouraged to work on numbers, but not threatened to be shut down. Affiliation does not correlate to size.

I agree that there should be respect on both sides!

As locals we really don't have the resources at our beck and call, I have seen that NPC houses on our campus and the Nationals lend support when ever they need it.
I also understand the desire to have sisters accross the country

There are of course somethings us "local" either don't understand or just plain don't like that is why we created locals right?
It is much harder to change years and years of tradition on a national level especially when they are deep rooted.
My sisters have friends in many of the houses on campus (some are even roommates) and we all try and help each other out for the good of greek life on our campus.

We also had a desire to go national that is now coming true but not in the same way as a NPC group so we still do have an influence on the development of our chapter and we have even further resources so that our chapter will not die.
All in all either local or national has its good and not so good sides as locals we have to deal withthe negative image that MTV so dearly loves to provide. I dont really know of that many locals that behave in that fashion BUT at every recruitment event we always have somebody that thinks that we like to go wild and that we will haze our new members. So any way you look at it...
Just my thoughts though :)

as others have said all national chapters aren't like that. prior to going into recruitment our chapter had only 15 members. since that is the norm at our school our national has never given us any problem with that. your lucky though that as a local you were able to re-organize after your chapter closed, thats something that most locals aren't afforded.

that's something that is really important to me about being in a national - my organization is here to stay. Bad choices by future actives or the whim of a single school's administration will not have to power to stop by organization. If the local that eventually became AEPhi at my college in 1954 hadn't gone national it would have disappeared it the 70's with all the other GLO's on my campus. There were many locals back then and none of them have returned.

What about traditions and ceremonies? What do locals do about all that stuff? My fraternity used to be national for 110 years, but had to break from national in 2000. Nothing changed, except some graduates came by and took some of our stuff. Same tradtions, we learn the same stuff. Our composites still have our previous national's name and seal on it. Our photographer sends national our composite every year and they havent said anything to us.

I think it depends on the sorority, how much pressure you feel on this. It's vital that you can tell your national rush chair or whoever that "this girl might look faboo on paper, but she is horrid in real life" and have them respect it.

I don't care if a national encourages quantity as long as they encourage quality as well.

I think that is true, but only to a point. We have a chapter of a national here that's fairly large for my school, about 35-40 members, and their nationals always gets annoyed that they don't take largee NM classes of like 30-50 girls because other chapters of that sorority do. What their nationals has a hard time understanding is that here, sometimes only 30 girls actuall come out to recruitment.

That's really strange then. Your post is making it seem that you continue to teach fraternity secrets to NM's. That could be cause for a potential lawsuit. Plus, if your charter was pulled in 2000, and rituals have been passed down orally, there's a chance that you may have even inadvertently changed how you do rituals.

I honestly never felt this pressure. Yes they always asked about our numbers to see how we were doing, but because we were always comfortable with our size, there was NEVER any pressure or threat to our chapter. We were competitive on campus, while still holding high expectations. We worked very hard on keeping drama to the minimum and being assets to our community. As a result of our drive we won national recognition for our Philanthropic efforts.

The point is still being missed though. As a greek community, we have to look at both sides. Yes, I do see why some locals are afraid of NPCs. They see these huge schools where a chapter of 60 women gets closed, but while you hear about that, it is not normal. Your average chapter is not on a yearly basis threatened to get bigger numbers. Encouraged, yes, but who doesn't want encouragement? It is nice to have someone come in and say you are the sweetest girls, how can we show more people this? That is what the 'breathing' really is in real life. By the same token, I'd have given anything not to have to fill out my CEPs, locals get that. They do what they do and don't necessarily have a nat'l board looking over everything.

Again, who are we to look down on someone else's decision to go local or national?