Okay Sorors and Sisterfriends...my point was the subject started out talking about Cita being a ridiculous "ghettoized" character. All of a sudden the connection was made that, "it sure is funny how Cita just happened to be dark-skinned". Now this is a bit ridiculous. I know a lot of the darker skinned sisters seemed to get uptight about my post but you know what...alot of times when we wonder why the connection still lives on, why don't we stop and think who keeps carrying it on! I understand why it is something that is so hurtful. If you keep making the connection of skin color on everything from why you were not asked to dance or why it just happens to seem like lighter skinned Blacks like Gina as opposed to Pam got the "better" role, then I can see how you can connect that with your feelings with your childhood experiences. Gina's role was not as sadity as you make it out to be. Nor was Pam's role as "ghetto".

My opinion about Rachel has nothing to do with skin color. Unlike many of you who seem to have let skin color determine how you view things (based on the the responses on this subject), skin color or hair type (for me) has no baring. Let's just assume that Rachel was what you consider dark-skinned with a short natural style and Big Lez was light-skinned with long wavy hair (as it was put in a previous post), Rachel would still have it!

Also, there was mention in a post that said that even though Rachel was from the Caribbean, most Caribbean women don't look like her. That is another reference to color that was out of synch. I mentioned Rachel's Caribbean background in my previous post to make the connect between her background and why she was probably placed on the Caribbean music show (because of her knowledge of the subject and her interests). What did that have to do with what she looked like? That is the point that I was trying to make. There is so much reference to color when sometimes it has nothing to do with color at all!

Again, I am not saying that racism within our race does not take place. I have seen it. I have been in situations where I was asked to dance more times than another friend. But could it have been that he was intrigued with my exotic eyes or my dimples? I guess I could internalize my fear of men not talking to me because I don't have a big behind, I'm not thick or tall.

I know that being dark-skinned caused a lot of jokes in school (even now). A soror and some friends and I went to a comedy club not long ago and a comedian was talking about "Your Momma" jokes. And what made it the worse was when he not only said a "Your Momma is so black..." joke but a group of white people were in the front row! When will the separation of our people stop?

It is great to increase the self-esteem that was lost by all the heartache of being labeled as less than acceptable because of your skin color, but don't tear down members of your own race who happen to be lighter skinned to lift yourselves up. How many times have I heard that even though she was light skinned, I don't consider her pretty at all. If lighter skinned black said something like that, there would be all H_LL raised, with responses like, "Oh, so you think you are better than us?" or "our thinking has been so influenced by white America that we think that darker skin is bad".

I just feel that we touched on this subject in the Lighter/Darker Skin topic. Why was there a connection to Cita appearing in Essence? To me that lighter/darker skin subject should have stayed in the other thread.

Greetings all,
This is a very interesting conversation and I just have to throw my two cents in.

First, on the issue of Rachel, she is not even black (well fully black anyway). She is half East Indian, and 25% something else and 25% black. So I take issue when people compare her to other black women because let's be real, most black women don't look like her. She's married to an executive at BET which is why she is still working there because in my opinion she is one of the worst interviewers I have ever seen.

Second on the issue of Martin, Martin actually hand picked Tisha to be his girl on the show after working with her on House Party. He had had a crush on her. And the character of Pam was already written to be a sort of nemesis to Martin, which explains why Gina's character is seen in a more positive light than Pam's. The casting was inconsequential.

Finally I too get upset when I watch TV and see only light, bright, and damn-near-white girls being represented. I know for a fact that there are beautiful black women of all colors and wish we could all be represented. But I have to say that it seems a lot of you seem to think that somehow growing up light skinned was easy. Trust me it wasn't. This is America. Do you think that when white people look at us they see this light vs. dark issue. If the KKK were to roll up on all of us do you think they'd discriminate on the basis of our skin tone? This is not to say that we shouldn't work on this issue in the black community because we most definitely should. The only point I wanted to make was that, as black folks, we all have it equally hard in this country.

Hmmmmm....I never really paid that much attention to the light/dark thing on BET (but I guess that's because I really don't watch it that much) nor on Martin. Truthfully, I've always thought Gina was a bit ghetto. I'm not "light, bright.." but I am reddish brown and fluctuate depending on what season it is http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif and I've always gotten offended whenever I see our people portrayed as ignorant no matter what their complexion was. Daruler made a good point about the KKK. I saw a white supremists web site once, and they certainly did not discriminate between complexions.

I won't, however, discount the way that my dark complexioned sistas feel by acting as if inner racism doesn't exist because I know it does. That's equivalent to white people that say that racism no longer exists. It's easy to say when you haven't been the direct bunt of it and racism, no matter where it comes from, hurts. On the flip side, I met a dark skinned man several years ago who deeply offended me. We were standing in line, I think, and he began talking about his experiences here because he was new to the country. Then, the brotha went out in left field and basically said that he felt that the lighter a woman was, the weaker she was.

But to answer the original question --- AKATUDE --- I don't care for Cita either. I have a young, impressionable daughter (which is one of the reasons I don't watch BET that often)and Cita perpetuates a stereotype that I do not want her to imitate.

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>>>"Many women do noble things, but you surpass them all."
Charm is deceptive and beauty is fleeting, but a woman who fears the Lord is to be praised... Proverbs 31:29-30

[This message has been edited by tickledpink (edited May 14, 2000).]

Soror

I am going to toss in my thoughts for whatever they are worth. About the light/dark complexion thing...i think it has been discussed enough...i believe that the only way we are going to stop it being an issue is if WE AS THE AFRICAN AMERICAN RACE stop making it an issue.

However, AKAtude I think that years ago BET stopped being what it was meant to be....a network that presents the "positive" images of African Americans that no other network would show. It stopped worrying about integrety and started worrying about the bottom line. I, like many of the sorors here, do not even watch it anymore. In fact, I was talking to another youth minister in my church about this same issue and he told me that BET is NOT EVEN OWNED OR RUN (i can't remember which)by African Americans anymore.

Cita is not what an African American woman is..and I am ashamed that BET would present her to the world as such.

much AKA luv

#6

PP08,

Soror once again I must respond to you.

First of all the idea that dark-skinned Black women perpetuate the issue of skin color is PREPOSTEROUS AND HURTFUL, especially when it comes from a sister (black woman).

You said:
I know a lot of the darker skinned sisters seemed to get uptight about my post but you know what...a lot of times when we wonder why the connection still lives on, why don't we stop and think who keeps carrying it on. I understand why it is something that is so hurtful. If you keep making the connection of skin color.

And to be honest soror, you sound like those white people. Who always say: "There is no racism, why are you jumping to conclusions that you didn't get that job. Maybe, because the "white" person was more qualified than you. They also say that racism is still an issue in America because "Black" people keep "perpetuating" the issue. I am sure you would think an argument like that is silly. Well, it is also silly in this context.

You said:
I have been in situations where I was asked to dance more times than another friend. But could it have been that he was intrigued with my exotic eyes or my dimples? I guess I could internalize my fear of men not talking to me because I don't have a big behind, I'm not thick or tall.

As far, as the comment about internalizing the fear of men not talking to us because we are dark-skinned as you seem to insinuate. #1 I don't know where that came from and #2 that is just a low blow PERIOD. Comparing discrimination about skin color, which is closely linked to an atrocious history of discrimination, dehumanization and racism in this country, with having a big butt or being tall is a bit absurd. There is really no comparison between entrenched forms of beauty standards based on history, dating all the way back to the "house negro" vs "field negro" paradigm, that was based in large part on skin color to issues like being "tall" and being "thick"

But since you took it there, there is also an issue in this country when it comes to standards of beauty: that prioritizes "thinness" as the supreme form of beauty. I am sure plus sized women could speak on this issue as well.

No one is trying to tear down light skinned women to bring themselves up. I don't need to do that. I have too many other qualities to use as self-esteem, my outer and inner beauty, my intelligence and my sense of humor.

If you notice and this goes to Daruler about us thinking light skinned women have it easy, you will notice in my initial post I made it a POINT to say that and I quote:

I also want to acknowledge there is a flip side to this issue. That some light skinned African-Americans are teased for being real light as well.

But as Daruler said even if we were to concede or it could be proven that the whole Martin casting had nothing to do with race. FINE our point is that skin color is still an issue in this country and DARK-SKINNED women are NOT the "force" perpetuating it. Trust me we wish it would disappear.

Everyone seems to agree that it is still an issue. Well that is our point. We surely aren't creating the "yo momma is so Black" jokes and we aren't teaching our children to make those comments that Serenity talked about.

So obviously there is some other force perpetuating it.

But like I said in my second post: I have decided that I will stop trying to convince people who feel as you do that "dark skinned" woman are paranoid about this issue.

Maybe, it is just one of those things that if you have not experienced FIRST HAND, you cannot understand it. Just like whites cannot truly understand what it is like to be an African-American.

Maybe, we were a bit hasty in making the connection between Cita's skin color and her caricature. But to dismiss it at being totally irrelevant is just as wrong, given the long and continuing history that we ALL
acknowledge exists in this country in placing a hierarchy of light skin over dark skin.


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Aim for the moon,.... if you miss you'll be among the stars.

[This message has been edited by chAKAlate (edited May 14, 2000).]

WHOOOOOAAAAAA!!!!!!! I didn't get the chance to check in during the weekend, now I'm playing catch up. I was hoping this topic would generate some discussion, and it certainly did!

I think all of you have made some great points. I agree with Soror Captivator that BET stopped being what it was meant to be a long time ago. I, too, stopped watching the network. When my fiance first told me about Cita I had to see what he was talking about. There are millions of intelligent, beautiful black women (regardless of skin complexion) and BET could have found someone to be a veejay and positive role model.

What wonderfully thoughtful replies!! It is quite refreshing to go on a greekchat line when members and sisterfriends are discussing more than 'how to be down'! I also love the fact that we can have a diversity of opinion without being disagreeable. Keep up the good work ladies!!

On BET & Cita (is that her name?) I must first say that I have not consistently watched BET in about 6 or 7 years so I cannot really speak on Cita (although I have seen commercials w/ her.) I can't remember who said it, but BET has long abandoned it's roots of providing postive A-A entertainment in chasing the almighty dollar. Some of you may not remember this , but when BET started in the 70s it showed a lot of old Black movies that were not getting play anywhere else. At that time, I thought the only way black people showed up in movies in the 40s and 50s was as maids and here BET was showing movies with ALL BLACK CASTS!! This little girl from Georgia was shocked! Somewhere along the line Bob Johnson decided that it was much more profitable for him to air infomercials and videos than movies such as the Emperor Jones. BET is still trying to pretend, however, by airing the shows that are worth anything at horrible times. BET Tonight w/ Tavis is on at 11:00 p.m. when most folks are watching their local news to get ready for tomorrow, Lead Story is on on Sunday mornings at 10:30 when most folks are getting ready for, or at church. The only thing that you can watch during 'prime time' is videos.

Now, as for the off-shoot topic of Cita's skin color... I think it is important that we ask the uncomfortable questions about body image, skin color, etc. to see what message we are sending young people, especially young girls. Whether we realize it or not, we are subconsciously effected by what we see in the media. Why do people like those ugly, loud (in my not so humble opinion) Versace shirts? Because a) they are expensive and b) someone on TV told them they were "in". As a young child, or even as a adult, if you are constantly told (by the media) that the way you look is not "in" then it has to do some damage to your psyche. Not only does it effect the ones that are not 'in' but it effects everyone. The people with the 'in' looks began to think that looks are going to open doors for them (and they sometimes do), that people with varied looks are not as smart, worthy, etc. Of course people do not say "how you look is not popular", but what they do is cast certain "types" in certain roles. Since Cita is an antimated character, I would love to know how BET made the decision on her 'look'. That includes everything from her dress, to her speech pattern to her skin color and hair style. I'm sure they told the animators that they wanted a street savy, hip hop around the way kinda girl with much attitude. They then had to match those adjectives with her discription. What does a girl like that wear? How does she sound? How does she style her hair? What does she look like (facial features, skin tone, size/weight)?

I don't know if there are any sociology majors on the list, but studies have been done that show that people will attribute other positive characterists (such as intelligence, how 'nice' they are, fun to be with, etc.) to people they deem attractive.

As African-American women who are offended by the notion that you have to look a certain way to be deemed attractive, we need to continue to discuss it these types of forums (and in Face 2 face conversations as well)so that men and women alike will know that it is NOT o.k. to say things like "she's pretty to be so dark." or "I don't like light skinned men" ('cause y'all know it's supposed to be 'in' to be a dark man right now!.) We also need to be conscience of the image that our children get from toys, their peers etc. and counterbalance that. And most importantly, we need to make sure that the people who are putting the images out there are held accountable. If that means sending letters to BET, their advertisers, etc. then that is what we need to do.

Sorry for the length (and any typos, misspelling,etc.), but this is a complex topic, that deserves mention.

[This message has been edited by Eclipse (edited May 15, 2000).]

I agree with you wholeheartedly SF Eclipse.

It's actually kinda funny, but while I was reading an African-American newspaper from the city I live in, out falls a small 20 page magazine titled BET Weekend Magazine (Whitney Houston is on the cover). I'll be darned if there wasn't a small blurb written on "our girl" Cita (maybe the same article you read Akatude). Apparently, Cita's REAL name is Kittie Troy. She is a 29 year old Washington native, who attended Clark Atlanta University and received a bachelor's in journalism from the University of the District of Columbia. BET asked Kittie the following questions about Cita.

What's it like being a cartoon character's alter ego?

"I love it. I'm ecstatic. This is what I've wanted since forever. But Cita is not a cartoon. She's a virtual-reality character. Every day, I get strapped up to sensors and mikes that allow me to be the voice and the actions of Cita."

Who did you use to come up with Cita's personality?

"A lot of it comes from me. I consider myself to be an articulate person, but I can flip it. It's not any one person. It's a complete combination of different people I've come in contact with over the years."

What 'hood is Cita from?

"Cita is not from anywhere. That is underlined, underscored all the time. Cita is around-the-way. From what way? You'll never know."

What about people who have a love-hate relationship with Cita?

"There's somebody out there who exemplifies who Cita is. She enjoys jonin' on folks and whatever else comes along with being ghetto-fab. I hate that people pigenhole Cita simply because she speaks in a certain kind of ghettoism. She talks about world issues, the Diallo verdict, Columbine. She quotes The Isis Papers. I don't think it's stereotypical. She's about as real as they come."

Is Cita a good example for kids, given that you have a 2-year old?

"Umm, to be honest, no. I think it's inappropriate for children under 16 to watch Cita. It's adult material."

Where do you see Cita in a few years?

"What? Oh, it's Cita for president, baby! The White House is about to be Black- literally and figuratively. Meow!"

Ladies, maybe it's just me, but after reading this article I think Ms. Troy contradicts herself. She clearly states Cita is not for the under 16 viewing audience, but what she apparently doesn't realize is THAT'S EXACTLY WHO IS WATCHING HER!! I don't know of too many of my peers that watch the "Jam Zone" faithfully.

Not to mention school will be out in a few weeks, if Cita is inappropriate for viewers in this age bracket, what is BET going to do about it? Take her off the air for the summer and risk their precious ratings? I hardly doubt it.

Just my opinion.

http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif I agree with ya Chakalate i can relate totally. I was called "black" so many times i thought that was my name. I've been discriminated against by other blacks far more then by whites. The question is who is continuing to perpetuate these negative stereotypes about darker skinned women? I think many of us play a role in this. Of course the white man started the division but many blacks continue to feed on it. How many dark skinned sistas only date light skinned men (is that a problem?), or how many grandparents treat lighter skinned grandchildren better then darker ones (it happened in my family, what does that teach us). For a long time i didn't want my daughter to be dark skinned not because i think its unattractive, but because i didn't want her (doesn't exist yet http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif ) to be treated like i have been as a darker sista by some ignorant black people. (maybe some brothers feel the same way and are trying to lighter their family tree, lets just be real, you don't know why someone chooses to date a particular type of person. I can't tell you how many brothers i've seen with white women who are far from being beautiful, but these brothers are attracted to thier white skin. White or anything close to it is still the overwhelming symbol of beauty in this country, its up to us not buy into it. A brother told me that his mom would not appreciate him bringing home a dark sista into their creole family (now what is that all about). Its all in perception. Light skin does not spell beauty, nor does dark skin spell ugly. Its just that everyone has a preference which is fine. Beauty really is in the eye of the beholder. Sistas (light and dark) we have to teach our children to appreciate all types of beauty not just the carbon copy we see in the media (and many are beautiful). And lets STOP comparing Black Women to one another we are all so different. Some "Black Women" are not all black, they are mixed and therefore will reflect that part of their ancestry as well, so how can we compare an all black woman to a half asian woman you can't, they are both beautiful but in different ways with different physical make ups, that's one of the problems comparing apples and oranges and saying one is better then the other. I think the one drop of black blood philosophy should be squashed forever because it is just not helping us at all, if anything it divides us into the little racial subgroups, each trying to out do the other. And we can't really expect someone to understand how we are treated as darker sistas when they have a totally different experience. But i found my self esteem in God's word that states that i am made in his image and i am fearfully and wonderfully made, that a woman's beauty should not come from her outward adornment but from a quiet and gentle spirit found within. From a dark sista whose daughters may come out light skinned or dark skinned beautiful any which way.

ps don't like Cita, enough said.

Dang!

This is a hot topic! Most of my Sorors and sisterfriends said what was on my heart. This is a touchy subject and I enjoy reading the different viewpoints.

We must remember to be empathic of other's plights. You don't know my pain if you have not travelled in my shoes. Never discount another person's feelings or viewpoints. Good topic excellent dialogue! Pink Dream

Whoa, my eyes are burning. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif Just kidding.

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Sincerity, Loyalty, Unity

Hello ladies. I'm not a member, but I would like to comment. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif
I think that if we were STRONG black women, a "cartoon character" should not bring us down or make us less of what we are. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif If people look at this character and compare it to the educated, intelligent, strong, hopefull, black women that we portray to be and think that we are as CITA is... then that's their dumbnest.

What I'm trying to say is...look at some of our rappers and singers that act as if they are thugs or sluts. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif If you were able to hold a real conversation with them, they would blow your minds with the knowledge that they behold. Sometimes, people do what they have to do to sell. (Which is not actually right) Now you may get angry at me but I laugh at Cita because she is FUNNY! She's a BIG JOKE!! Not real!! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif Cita's "Ghettocism" does not make me question my ability to be the black woman that I am. When she comes on television, we don't see the words... "CITA, THE MODEL OF THE REAL BLACK WOMAN" show at the top of the screen.

I do think that she does get a little stupid but that's when I turn the channel.

Think about this..you may think that Montell Jordon is the male mack that tries to get all the women that he can get. BUT......he has a degree in Law, happily married with a beautiful daughter. I also heard that he is a member of Kappi Alpha Psi Fraternity, Inc. (I heard). Now look at that!!! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/cool.gif

I think we should look within ourselves to see who the true person is. If we all know who our each and individual selves are, then this CHARACTER can't destroy who the REAL BLACK WOMAN is. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by gypsy (edited May 15, 2000).]

Oh MY GOODNESS, Miss AKAtude, I do declare!

Can we say it like Prince: CONTROVERSY!

On the more serious side...What does geographic location have to do with the way a dark-skin female feel about this particular topic? The way we were raised? What exactly does that mean? I am so confused, I can hardly type. This really upset me a little. Yes, I am dark....Yes, these racism within our race exist......No!! I am not paranoid.
We need to take this opportunity to feel one another.

Deja

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TO WHOM MUCH IS GIVEN....MUCH IS EXPECTED.

[This message has been edited by AKAtude (edited May 23, 2000).]

Hello Sorors and Sisterfriends...as explained before, my question was why is this discussion even under this topic heading? Wasn't there one started before this one was started to DISCUSS CITA?

Like anything else from interests to styles, dislikes and likes, location does have an effect.

I do like how the subject made a twist to talk about the ORIGINAL subject at hand (Cita and BET).

To all those that got offended by my posts...NO offense was intended.

[This message has been edited by AKAtude (edited May 23, 2000).]

This question is for all....
As someone who has never watched Cita's show (y'all make me feel so old and out of touch!!! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif ), can someone give me some examples of some of the more 'ghetto' things she does/says? What about this character is so offensive?