Bullspit, huh? http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif I just love how folks can have a conversation about something without resorting to negative comments. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif

It is a given that when you have a discussion, not everyone is going to agree. And that is fine. It wouldn't be a discussion if everyone agreed on everything. If you don't agree with someone, so be it. There are ways to respectfully express your disagreement without throwing around negative comments on post.

Is it necessary to imply that someone is "not learned" and that their point of view only PASSES as intellectual discourse?

I just find it interesting how we desire the respect of others and our points of view sometimes, but are not willing to give that same respect in return.

[This message has been edited by BrandNubian (edited April 12, 2001).]

First of all, I'd also like to give props to Manndingo Nupe for bringing up this topic. It's something that's on my mind pretty frequently.

Regarding Jesse, although some people may think of him as a leader, I don't. Not saying that he has done nothing for African-Americans. I have just never thought of him as a leader. His behavior, in my opinion, is not alignment with what I feel a leader's behavior should be. I never felt as though he was a spokesperson for me, or for African-Americans in general.

Anyway...I'm not going to focus on Jesse. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

1 Woman of Virtue:

I enjoyed what you had to say. I think that it's absurd to think that one person is going to represent such a diverse group of people. That puts a lot of pressure on that so-called spokesperson and there's no way s/he can do it all.

Also, having one person or a select group to represent a collective can sometimes cause people to shun personal responsibility. When something goes down, some people feel compelled to seek out that national spokesperson without even attempting to deal with it themselves.

Nupe4Life said it best: "Why can't we stand up as a race and deal with the problem?"

I think that we as a people face many, many issues and there's no way that one leader/spokesperson can address them all. Leadership, as a couple of people have already said, needs to be more of a grassroots effort and it also needs to be steeped in more action as opposed to rhetoric.

After all, there are those leaders (both greek and non-greek), like Manndingo Nupe said, whose names we don't know. And a lot of the time, those leaders are doing a heck of lot better job than some of our so-called recognized spokespeople are. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif

Just my .25 cents...



[This message has been edited by BrandNubian (edited April 12, 2001).]

much respect...

my brotha, doggystyle82, i find it interesting that because i asked you a pointed question that i am not learned and i am not expressing myself intellectually. i do not have to prove to you whether i'm educated...i know that i am...and i know that i am an intellectual.

and i am not asking you to argue with me...i am merely asking...when has there been a time in this country when there has been a high moral standard? i just want to know. because saying we have to "get back" to morality means that there was a time when in this country there was such a thing. i'd like to know in your opinion when there was a time that this existed.

but in any case...mandingonupe this post...

is the reason why we as black people cannot find decent leadership. because we are quick to swipe at one another. we are like poodles biting at one anothers heels. it is not enough for us to agree to disagree...we must make sure that we bash one another when absolutely necessary. and we are also not willing to hear one another out when we do disagree. nor are we able to answer one anothers questions with intelligence, sensitivity, and compassion.

this is why there can be no leadership. and why white amerikkka laughs at our so-called "leaders" when they present themselves to tell our side.

i agree with nupe4life when he said that we should present ourselves as a whole...but as the above quote shows we could not do that. we are too busy attacking one another to do such a thing. we talk before we listen. we bash before we embrace. we hate before we love.

maybe we should take a cue from our brothers and sisters in other ethnic and racial groups. we should stop being like crabs in a barrel. if we cannot even agree to disagree on an online forum...without being insulting...how could we even face one another and fight "the good fight" together.

its highly unlikely...that we would win.

this is not to say that all black people are like this. but it would seem that there are more black people who are uninterested in working together and who are more interested in destroying one another...than there are on the other end.

i hope that i can one day find a group of black people who are interested in change...no matter if we agree or not.

peace,
lastpoet

BrandNubian and LastPoet:

I will not torture the readers of this site with a lenghty response. I meant what I said and I will stand by my belief that certain people have agendas and the relevancy or truth of the argument be damned.

Lastly, LASTPOET, it is very unbecoming of you to try to portray yourself as a victim and make a desperate grab for sympathy. I am LMBAO right now "we bash before we embrace", "we hate before we love" Save the melodrama for freshman poli-sci class. It aint that deep. There is no need to take what I said and extrapolate to that degree of hyperbole.....Oh yeah, unless of course that hidden agenda surfaces.

...hey, a process and a pimp suit ain't never prevented anybody from being about their biz and effecting lasting change in the community so more power to the process and pimp suit wearin fashion police needing community leaders that get the job done when need be... http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

Doggystyle82:

I respect that the fact that you will stand by your beliefs. I don't agree with your beliefs, but I respect the fact that those are your beliefs, and I don't have the right to belittle them.

I wish you had the same perspective regarding respect of different beliefs and points of view. It seems as if you do not. Because you continue to come on the board and say unnecessary things about/to people on post. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif

As far as LastPoet's so-called "melodrama"...well, you know what, you get to be as sarcastic and insulting as you want. In the same token, she can be as melodramatic as she wants. Who made you the post police? I believe we have moderators for that. Why not respond intelligently to the points she has raised instead of being so insulting? http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif

Once again, efficient and successful discussions require respect. But that's just my opinion. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif Anyway, that's all I'm going to say on the respect issue. Back to the topic....

The POST POLICE has arrived....AGAIN!


This going back and forth has not gotten anywhere. If you want to go back and forth, do so privately. If one does not adhere to what this POST POLICE has directed, then his or her posts will be deleted. Let others who want to post their opinon do so without being attacked. (DOESNT' THIS SOUND FAMILIAR?) http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif

Give it a REST AND MOVE ON!

Good Topic!

Unfortunatly in today's society the media overall has begun to define what our leadership is instead of us deciding. Most leaders are built through grass roots movment. Today there is such a lack of strong grassroot movement that the national figures tend to stick to high level issues. Take for example boycotts. Effective boycotts take place at the Grassroots level on a day to day basis. It is one thing for a Black Leader to come to a city for a couple of days, speak on the issue and bounce. They fail to create a grassroot community organization that will hold on to that protest or ideal. Many of these organizations should be in churches but the apathy of the church adds to the problem. The movie entitled "Racism 101" address these issues at length showing social protest on college campuses. When I was in college(people I am still under 25 http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif) students of socail ideals made sure they were a pain in adminstrations butt but at the same time did not lose focus on the day to day agenda. Now we don't use those skills on a daily basis. What are the 9 organizations going to do about what is going on in Cincinatti? Probably say it is wrong but that is it. "As long as there are the oppressed and down troden there will always be a need for ALpha Phi Alpha" is what one of my founders said but I think that it applies to all of us. Let us start using our organization knowledge to build grassroot community leaders and from there move on the front to improve education day to day, teach our young responsible sexuality, support single parents and create voter registration that not only gets people registered but educates the now registred voters of the state of their county, state, national officers and let them decide what the important issues are to them. Many thanks for MN for putting this up.

Peace

Sphinxpoet

First, I gotta say to all y'all that this is long and summa y'all will get confused 'cuz you ain't found your "path", yet... So if you don't like it, I suggest that y'all email me privately so we can "deal" and you skip my comments to VctoriasSecrt... And my lovely Sorors, I know you may tell me I shoulda emailed the girl privately, but given todays Cinncinati circumstances, I haveta let cha'all know where I'm coming from 'cuz chit must change on the really, real and we'da ones that gotta change it...

Vct-

My statements are not meant to be incendiary. I believe you have misinterpreted my words. And truthfully, if you have looked at my Afrikan Centered posts here on GC, you can see that I definitely am incapable of allowing myself to remain in spiritual bondage...

Once the Universe and God (Aten-Ra) has touched your 3rd and 7th charkra points (a simplistic meaning which roughly translates to your heart and soul), your path and paradigm of life--the UTAMAROHO--must change. There is no other way because I believe one dies if they don't... And as a free spirit, which I am trying to become because I am still in my cocoon stage which requires baby's food and milk (really I need to do a spiritual cleansing in the form of a 5 day water fast), my mind is unable to believe how to go back as a slave... If I were to do so, my spirit will no longer survive the threat and cease to exist...

However, because I have been unable to do my hadj to the true and heavenly Mecca, and at this time decided to remain in amerikkklan, which means retaining my Untied [impaired mental] States citizenship status, I still must be in the massahs house (unfortunately, that is my heritage). And whilst I am unable to be a runaway to the "promise land" and massah knows he cain't sell me ('cuz he thinks I have bewitched him with my "charms"...)--- and the fact that unenlighted and jealous negroes who work in the "proverbial" house and field must interact with me, I have decided to risk the death of some negroes who want to follow a similar quest as I. And I realistically know that I must die having learnt massah's essence. It has been revealed to me (any many others before and like me) of how he maintains his the grip of his power. I am beginning to understand--as the ancestors did when we were all free and transcended to the Mothership Connection to Sirius C---to deny, debacle (sp.) and annihilate massah's ill conceived notion of his narcissistic schizophrenia entitled white supremacy. In so many words, I have learned some parts of how to Read, Write and do massah's Arithmatic, well... And I have begun teaching the "others" about the revolt and for the destruction of the plantation...

Now, since I have spoken those words, I will receive threats because I did not request the blessings of the Kandaces or the Yourban preistesses. But that is okay, that is only a minor setback and I have already ressurected myself from this spiritual crucifixion so that I can do it again and again... (Hint, hint lastpoetinsite http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif) However, I realize that because I have chosen this particular path which may not allow me to do my hadj and my pentinence to Mecca that the massahs' army called legion could spill my blood before I have communed with the fellow spirits... Meaning, because the internet is not secure, "they" can find me before I have completed my service for MY true brethern, just like Stephen in Acts of the Apostiles. Maybe not immediately, but it will happen and I have accepted that. And I will not seek martyrdom because I am unworthy to obtain the sainthood...

Now that you've read this, please feel free to email me at your earliest convenience because we can speak somewhat more freely without upsetting my lovely Soror's requirements...

Take care, stay blessed and peace

Ashe, akeerah, harambee

AKA_Monet (truly wanting the Ntambi(sp.) calledSKMT)

errrrrt sistah soldiah aka_monet http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif i did not in any way disagree with your entire post...just the last line made me go huh, what? cool...if i misinterpreted the last line of your post cool...my bad i am new so i have not been through a lot of your posts, so no, i did not know fully where you were coming from, now i do...i was not making a personal attack, my opinion was concerning that one line and the message being conveyed...if you feel that i have disrespected you, i appologize, but no one should base their opinion on how someone may take it...if that is the way you feel cool...i feel ya...but keep this in mind...it is things like this that continually keep us divided...uncompromising, steadfast leadership is what we need...until then, nothing lasting will be accomplished...