I noticed your tag line with the Jesse Peterson quote. It reminds me of Booker T Washington and his battles with WEB DuBois. Neither was right nor wrong, but it is the right combination of the two that lead to improvement of AA society.

Peterson loses a little credibility with me for attacking other Black leaders on conservative white programs (like when he ripped Jesse Jackson on Bill O'Reilly's show). I'll just say that there is a "right way" to be right. In a family, when you argue with your brother or sister, it should not empower the enemies of your family.

Are you familiar with Project 21?

Good thread
 

I have two disparate points to make.

First the Gore thing. I don't know what has gone on behind the scenes between Gore and Lieberman since the last election, so I am not going to try and guess the reason for the endorsment and how it was made.

Second, I heard a disheartening stat today. Of AAs in Minnesota who are of voting age, 20 percent are ineligible because of felony convictions. The percentage for non-AAs is only 1 percent. :eek: Add that to the stat already stated that only 20 percent of the eligible AA voters vote, that is a huge issue.

That's roo dog....
 

Bruh,

DAYUM......that was some good sh**!! Man, this is why I love older being around older bruhz. You catch some hell...but at the same time, you learn things that will help you along in life.

AND THAT IS ALL THE WAY, ROO!

Re: Good thread
 

Sadly that is the case in a LOT of areas. And Clinton was the president that signed that mess into law! :mad:

Which goes to show you(or us rather) that dividing ourselves (AfAm) over political lines (Dem. vs. Rep.) is ludicrous. They both have their specific agenda when it comes to Afr. Americans.

Yes I understand what you're saying about Peterson...but on the topics he speaks of...his point of view is so rarely heard... Just because he's on Bill O'Reilly's show making his point...doesn't make it any less valid. Black commentators etc.. aren't really trying to hear what he's saying. The issues in our community aren't a secret...so what's the problem with voicing them whenever and whereever the opportunity is presented? People that oppose his views have no problem with getting on these same media outlets and calling him, Condoleeza Rice, Colin Powell, Janice Rogers Brown, etc... all kinds of offensive names..so how is this different?

You use the analogy of a family argument...well i would assert that these leaders do not consider Peterson and other AA's with this point of view a part of their family.... The things AA leaders say about other AA with opposing viewpoints are sad and disheartening.

No, I am not familiar with Project 21...would you care to explain??...I'll do a bit of research on my own as well...

Great Topic and Discussion
 

I'm new to this forum - great topic and discussion.

Just wanted to get some clarification on the quote above. In terms of laws disenfranchising due to felony offenses - I'm not sure how Clinton "signed that mess into law!"

There have always been states in the Union that disenfranchised people for felony convictions. All but three states deprive incarcerated offenders the right to vote, roughtly 35 states disenfranchise non-incarcerated offenders (convicted criminals under the supervision of the criminal justice system - probation, parole, etc.) and about 15 states disenfranchise ex-offenders for life.

These laws came about during slavery and resurfaced with vigor during reconstruction. Of course we know the use of those laws (and the impact) and they are still used for the same reasons today.

I just wanted to know what law exactly did Clinton sign. Enlighten a brotha.

My $.11 cents - we need to stop being reactionary. The Black community needs to be proactive. What is our agenda? Is there a goal that we are trying to reach? "Power concedes nothing without a demand." What are we demanding? And the main thing - what is the Black community doing to police, educate and uplift our own?

Doggystyle and AceDawg - good stuff Bruhs. Thanks for starting this discussion Ace. If you are ever in Miami - holla at a Bruh. ROO!

Buddha
1 Dawg - Sigma Alpha - Spring Q002

Re: Great Topic and Discussion
 

Welcome to GC Frat! Please post often...we are in need of more of the male persective ;) And u know ERRRYYBODY luv da bruz anyway... ;)

In regards to your post..I am not sure of the specific law that Honeykiss1974 is referring to either...but my question is...
who's fault is it that these AA's lost their right to vote?? Are you saying that since these laws were enacted during slaver that they are no longer valid??? Some blame it on the discrepancies in incarceration rates for blacks vs. whites. I'm not buying that though...I'm all for self-accountability. ENOUGH ALREADY with blaming other people for our shortcomings, mistakes, etc..

Re: Great Topic and Discussion
 

Opps, you're right.

It was the Welfare Reform Act that he passed that denied assistance and benefits to people convicted of CERTAIN :rolleyes: drug related convictions (pretty much destroying a stepping stone to get back on their feet i.e. food stamps, federal assistance, student loans, etc.).

Sorry, wrong thread. :D There are so many things against us its hard to keep track.

It is something to look at though. Out of a total of 3,892,400 felons in the US, 1,367,100 are black men :eek:

I agree with Love-spell. At what point do we (AfAm) take a look at ourselves and say "What are we doing wrong?"

Re: Re: Great Topic and Discussion
 

Although this is somewhat moving away from the topic of the thread, here are my concerns with disenfranchisement. What exactly is the rationale for taking away the right to vote? What is the purpose for this disenfranchisement? Our justice system has multiple personality disorder. Some of its policies are based on punishment, some on rehabilitation. On one hand, it says you are supposedly welcomed back into society once you have paid your debt but on the other hand you can never pay your debt because you will always be without certain "rights."

I think what is significant about the fact that these laws came about during slavery and reconstruction/Jim crow relates to their underlying purpose and rationale. Are they accomplishing anything and is there a reason we feel that someone with a felony conviction should not be able to vote? Maybe the majority of people do feel they make sense but I wonder has anyone really stopped to think about it.

As far as accountability, I agree. We are all responsible for our own choices and actions. I am of the mindset that it is not about excusing AfAm's who do wrong because the system is not equal, it is about making the system equal and punishing everyone who deserves it. All Americans need to be held accountable. When I argue against racial profiling, it is not to say I think those who were caught should have not been but to say I want them to look for all criminals regardless of race. The choice to more vigorously police one population will result in finding the criminals where you look. I want them to look everywhere, not just here. I want the role of bias in arrests, prosecution, and sentencing to be acknowledged and addressed. I want the playing field to not be theoretically even but actually even. If you think it is even in the criminal justice system, come sit in the courthouse in Baltimore City and watch the disparate goings ons with me for a day or two.

It seems like these discussions (in the world not just GC) often come down to either you think how things are done is fine and AfAm's are society's losers who are whining about nothing or you are somehow rooting to set the criminals free.

Re: Re: Re: Great Topic and Discussion
 

There has been a bill in the house since 1999 dedicated to overturning this voting restriction, but it has sat there all this time. No one wil move on it for fear of looking "soft on crime".

Re: Re: Re: Great Topic and Discussion
 

I won't deny that there were probably racist motives that drove the reasons convicted felons can't vote...but see here is the thing.... yes you're supposed to regain "rights" when you get out of prison...but until the recidivism rates drop...convicted criminals don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to defending their "right" to vote....and that they're done their "time." The justice system isn't perfect..as is no system...but dang....its not like our folx are running to the RIGHT to vote anyway....lets deal with those that have this right first and aren't using it....then deal with the convicted criminals!

You point to the courthouse in Baltimore City and the playing field being uneven...well is it really the Criminal Justice system or is it the AA's that are committing the crimes?? I'm sorry..but the fact that there are more black males incarcerated than in college speaks to me about the Black community family etc... not the Criminal Justice system. Yes there are sentencing differences etc... but are you saying that AA's aren't committing crime disproportionately to other races??

We can blame the criminal justice system, we can blame the repubs or dems for laws/bills that did or did not pass, slavery....all that! But the bottom line is we need to get ourselves in order. If we don't want to get sent to jail in record numbers...its up to US to change that...not the Criminal Justice system....

As far as racial profiling...that could lead into another thread...but I will say this. Maybe it is racial profiling..but it think its STUPID to be pulling little old ladies out of the line in the airport...while Arab men walk through...all in the interest of being fair...but I digress!

OK I think this thread is OFFICIALLY hijacked!

Re: Re: Re: Re: Great Topic and Discussion
 

Hijacked it is!

We are in agreement on so many points. I absolutely agree that the most important thing is to rebuild the fabric and character of the African American community. Assimilation has been a double edged sword, bringing opportunity and, in other ways, destruction of the lynchpins of AfAm society. I believe in our attempts to be like "mainstream" America we have lost our sense of values. We have steadily moved away from the strong family and extended family, routinely put instant gratification above all else and have become thoroughly self centered.

Although I will debate and discuss disenfranchisement, I am not saying this is my priority issue or that I think this is OUR priority issue. But if you ask me about it, I can discuss it and tell you what I think. That does not mean that I would not say that the "bottom line is we need to get ourselves in order." I think we have turned parenting of our kids over to the media, who has them convinced they are supposed to be in Manolo Blahniks and Platinum at 15. Our collective priorities are out of whack. Our house is in great disarray- I absolutely agree with you on that, Soror.

Yes, I know the statistics reflect that Af Am's are being arrested and convicted for crimes at a disproportionately high rate. (I cannot speak as to whether we are committing crimes at a disproportionately high rate.) We should not be committing crimes at all. That does not belie the fact that I do believe that the criminal justice system seeks out Black people to interrogate, arrest and prosecute. While I think that we need to address why we are committing crimes in the first place, I will not stop speaking out against the injustices that do go on in the system. I do not see the things as either/or (either I work on the community or I speak out against the bias)

As to your racial profiling comment- hoe would you determine when it makes sense to be fair and when not. And who it is okay to treat poorly and who not?

Example of the bias of the justice system:
The punishment for possession of crack is greater than for possession of cocaine. Who is most likely to use crack and who is most likely to use cocaine?

Wonder what Al Gore would say about this? j/k--a feeble attempt at humor to at least have some semblance to the original topic. :p

Re: Great Topic and Discussion
 

Dawg, I met your Tail, David, this past summer. Welcome Bruh. Be owt.

I'm between LoveSpell and Kimmie on crime and punishment. I know firsthand how disparate the treatment is between Blacks and whites. White non-violent criminals get released on thier own recognicance and white juveniles released to custody of parents, while AAs get high bail or no release until their trial.

Like LadyGreek said, less crack wikk get you more time than murder, while white powder coke users get treated like its a spliff. But I'm with LOVESPELL in that the negroes shouldn't have done the crime in the first place.

Quote:

Doggystyle and AceDawg - good stuff Bruhs. Thanks for starting this discussion Ace. If you are ever in Miami - holla at a Bruh. ROO!

Bruh, no doubt...and it's good to have you here! In all honesty, I met some of your chapter Bruhz at the Florida Classic over in Orlando....it was tite...bruhz were hoppin' and old school bruhz were showin' us a thing or two. Anyway, I'll PM you my info...we can holla - mos def.


BE OWT, DAWG....ROOO!