Perhaps some people misunderstood me or that I did not make myself clear. As far as hair is concerned, if I meet you and you have long pretty hair, leave it that way. If you had a short, pretty, hairstyle that complements or accentuates your facial features, I'm fine with that. I loved the short hair Toni Braxton. However, I do not like women with mannish styles or cuts that make them look like boys. I am not hung up either way. Complexion doesn't matter either. I like them all, but a tall, chocolate with a nice booty will get my attention every time. " Hey Shawty, whatcho name is gul" lol. MANDINGONUPE: I am in that tall, dark, and bald category also. You cool with me. BTW: as another observation, in the movie and on the TV show Soul Food, why is smart and successful sister the lightskin one? Why is the smart articulate male love interest the noticably lighter brother and the hood (Lem) dark-skin. Television or the media may not create our perceptions of ourselves, but they damn sure reinforce them.

Style,

I'm not trying to put you on the spot or use you as an "example", but I would like to ask you something...

If a women chooses to cut off her long hair, what do you have to do with it?If she feels the need for a change, if she's with you or not, it's her right. Just because she looked one way when you started dating doesn't mean she is obligated to stay that way.

I'm always changing up on my significant others. Everyone reserves their right to comment on what I do, but I'd never say to myself "I better not cut it because John would have a fit. He loves my long hair...that's how I looked when we met."

Sadly, alot of women do think like that. It's something that both sexes should think about.

I'm with Ideal08 when she said

In this thread alone, you will see quite a few sista's are tired of getting flack for cutting our "long, pretty" hair. Why is it so coveted within our race??

Lately I have been asking myself...what is "pretty" anyway? I think the rays of light spiriling from my head are beautiful. I used to have hair a little past my bra strap, so I've done the long haired thing. I first cut my hair off when I was 12 cuz I got tired of it. My mom is STILL mad at me. It's like people petrified to go against the "ideal". I for one am sick of it.

Side note: www.endarkenment.com is a site designed to raise black awareness. I found it two days ago and I can't stop reading it. Check it out.

I am truly not swayed by what the media, ad people, performers and such try to pigeon-hole as the 'in' shade! I think it's pretty dayum pathetic that they can somehow attempt to dictate what it is I should or should not find attractive. For those men that are only attacted to a certain shade sister--it's all good, cuz there's another brotha waiting behind him who can't get enough of it!

By sight, I am attractive to men of all shades; however, I have a penchant for chocolate men. But that's what makes ME excited. The media will never be able to send me subliminal messages about my worth measured in shades of skin color.

On a side note, about the hair thing. I had a lil bit below the shoulder length hair. Very 'healthy and clean'! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif I found it liberating to cut it all off and go natural. I cut it down to almost bald, died it, twisted/coiled it. I did whatever I wanted to with it. For the most part, the men were totally intrigued by it and constantly wanted to touch it. But I did get, what I found to be, ignorant a$$ comments about why did you cut all that pretty hair out! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif Bump that, it's all about me and what makes me happy!

[This message has been edited by jazbri (edited January 12, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by jazbri (edited January 12, 2001).]

I know that's right!

I feel you girl. I didn't cut mine off, I just cut it shorter than it was. Still, when people that met me natural see old pics they always say "But your hair was so pretty!!"

Ok? And?

People like to touch my hair too. Sometimes it gets on my nerves, but sometimes it brings about interesting convo with interesting people.

POPLIFE: I have plenty of Black Enlightenment and have enough self awareness to KNOW WHOM and WHAT I am. I see sistas such as your self and others cutting your hair as a sign of rebellion against a perceived preference for longer hair because its seen as so-called "good" or more like "white". I read why Jill Scott wears her hair "natural" and not "oppressed" as it was when she used to relax and style it. Hey, if your hair symbolizes your "Blackness" or your freedom from society"s definitions, more power to you. If my lady decided to cut off her crown of glory for a buzz cut or short afro, she doesn't want me for her man anymore. A statement against how I like you when I first met you, is a statement against me. If you are going through some Afro-centric, feminist, liberation type thing, then you are no longer the woman that I fell for. If your hair has become a political statement or some new manifestation of insight into your inner-self, then I have to roll, because that means that you have issues and you are bound to be going through more "changes" trying to find or getting to know the "real you" Have fun finding yourself. Call me when the journey is over. We all have to be true to self. If you need to cut you hair to feel better, then by all means, do so. Long is no better than short, nappy no better than curly, but leave politics out of the hair. You can be Afro-centric with styled hair or long hair if thats what God gave you. BTW: white men don't like their women to make radical changes to their hair either. All the white guys I know hate Faith Hill's new short hairstyle.

P.S. just so you know, I'm very Afro-centric, but I don't need musical selections, dietary changes, change in religious affiliation, or fashion statements (hairstyles, nose rings, khufis, headwraps, dhishikis) to prove it.

Excuse me Doggystyle82, but that sounds extremely superficial. Is outer beauty more important than inner beauty? What if your woman cut her hair short because she wants a lower maintenance hairstyle which would allow her to focus her energy on other more important matters? What if she cut her hair short because her hair is badly damaged from overprocessing? What if she just wants to try something new? What if your woman underwent chemotherapy and lost ALL of her hair? Wearing short styles or naturals isn't always about politics.

Let's take this one step further. What if your woman put on 25 lbs? Would you leave her because she is not longer the slim, trim woman you fell in love with?

Please don't take this as a personal attack. I am just curious.



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"In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: It goes on." ~Robert Frost

Such a long post and none of your points had anything to do with me.

Like I said before, I cut my long hair because I was tired of long hair and wanted a change. I was 12. I didn't know anything about long hair, short hair, good hair, bad hair, or black hair politics. All I knew was that I wanted to change. My friend had a short bob and it was cute, so I go one too. It really wasn't that deep.

I had no idea what I was getting into when I went natural. All I knew was that it was perms too expensive, too painful, and to damaging for me. So I did the logical thing: I STOPPED.

When I stopped straightening. I was forced to see the truth about blacks and their beliefs on hair that I never knew existed. I stopped perming and “growing” my hair to be more practical. It was people like you that assumed I was trying to be afrocentric. That’s what gave me my “militant” side.

You also assume every short natural style is a manly style. That's very stereotypical. My mane is not long but it's very feminine. I get sweet comments from men all the time about my hair. Not every pretty/sexy/sultry style has to be "swingable".

That goes back to my original question. If your girlfriend has long hair and she decided she wants a Jada or a Halle because it's too fly not to try, then who are you to tell her otherwise? It's hers! And what if she opts for a short afro for the same reasons I stopped perming or because she wants to "rebel"? If you leave her even though she is the same inside that shows that your love is conditional.

I don't care what white men like their women to do. My father is a black man and if a male child comes out of me, he will be black. So I only worry myself with black men and think only of white men when I am forced to.


How do you know I do? You’ve never seen me or, nor do you know me. Don’t ASSume anything.

I know I'm not with the majority in this one but...I kinda feel what the man is saying. I can understand what he means about radical changes and going find yourself..Blah, blah , blah....

POPLIFE ..here's a question for you. How many times have you questioned the choice YOU made about the hair YOU feel so strongly about?
I'm just curious. This has been quite a touchy subject these days.

MIDWESTDIVA and POPLIFE:

I never said anything about outer beauty being better than inner beauty. If the woman I were attracted to radically altered her look to one that I did not prefer. I'm not being superficial. If you met me and liked me because of my business/ business casual style and short wavy hair, you would be upset if I grew Rasta style locks and nappy chin beard. If you said, "honey, I don't like that look, I preferred you in the manner in which I met you". Is that superficial or a legitimate. Of course, if there were some "real or legitimate" reason for the change, it would not bother me. Also, I did not say that I preferred long or short hair. Just that I wasn't into radical changes, especially those made for "statement" purposes. Weight gain is natural with child birth, and if you are the mother of my child, my love is endless and without prejudice, but if your gaining two or three dress sizes because I'm treating you to some nice restauraunts, somebody going to Jenny Craig.

POPLIFE:My suppositions were stricty from the tone and information in your post. I don't know many girls who cut their own hair at age 12, nor did you mention that you permed your hair or about imitating a friend. That is a whole lot of new info. You gave the inference that your hair was naturally long and so-called "good". Thats why everyone was complimenting it. You never mentioned that your "long, good hair" was impractical, so my assumption was that you were being Afrocentric by the tone of your post. I never assumed that short equaled manly. I know plenty of women with nice, un-permed hairstyles. Twists look great on some women. I love Jada and Halle and Toni. My point being, that is how I came to love them, with their hair already short (no radical changes)

Again as with MidwestDiva, the question of who am I to tell her what to do with her hair? Nobody, I guess according to you. If I can't be consulted and asked my opinion on such a radical change, then I don't need to be with ya. Just as if you were short and natural and then shoewd up with a foot of weave. That aint the girl I fell in love with. My love is unconditional, what I like isn't.

My statement about white men referred to your statement about "why is long, pretty hair so coveted in our race". I was just giving you an example of how others have the same emphasis on not wanting their women to cut their hair. Hair is coveted in every culture. In most cultures, the cutting of a females hair is taboo and only to be done as a sign of morning or great personal shame.

No I don't know you. I didn't say that you did any of those things. I didn't assume anything about you other than you cut your hair to make a statement. That was from the post before you explained yourself in detail.

Love, peace, and hair grease. Or to be politically correct, should that be carrot oil?

Style,

I guess I really didn't see a reason to go into extreme detail about my hair incident. I forget that you all weren't there and you didn't know the circumstances. I'm glad that we're on the same plane now.

As far as radical changes: In a way I understand what you're talking about. I have changed and I have been changed on. How do I "cope"??

Learn to love it. If I truly care about that person and THEY like they way I look then what else can I do? Leave? I think not. The man I was dating at the time got used to my natural and I'd do the same for him.

Doggy, I just cannot feel you when you said that you need to be "consulted" before a drastic changed...yeah I'll warn ya...*lol*. I also wonder about the idea that because someone drastically changes their style they are no longer the girl you come to know. On the OUTSIDE, yes, but 9 times out of 10 the heart and mind are still the same. So when you say they're no longer the girl you feel in love with...did you fall in love with the way they look or the way they are?

I was reading the responses and I want to state a point I read in article about JAY-Z. A lot of times, artists do not pick the ladies that are featured in their videos. The producer, director or other members of their staff round up some girls and tell them to choose. It is sad, but most of the time, these folks are not African American and their views of us are different. Now, if you really want to talk about different views, I live in England and you will rarely see a 100 percent African-American, Latino, Greecian or any other type of couple here. To say the least, I trust my husband, but I have also tightened up where I may have been lacking. I go to the club and the British women swarm what we would not even look at in a hundred years, but they also get some of the good ones. I beieve everyone is entitled to their own preference, I know there are brothers I would not date. However, I hate to see anyone get taken or to hear they do not date black women because we require too much or are high maintenance. To each his own, but there are ignorant folks in this world, but we are here to give them a clue.

I question it every time I discuss hair politics with someone, even if they feel they way I do. I love challenging my beliefs. I find that simple action alone is responsible for much of my mental and spiritual growth.

It's interesting how you emphasize the word "you". I notice that a lot of women don't really make the choice to get a relaxer because their mama's or grandmama's or aunties make that choice for them when they are too young to decided. I believe was 7 when my mom first permed my hair. She says it was 9, but I've seen pictures!!! *lol*.

But on a serious note, I don't think it was fair to me because I didn't get a chance to learn how to do my hair in it's God-given state. When I was 15 or 16 the idea of not having a perm was actually SCARY and I was trapped into perming by the fear that I would look a mess if I didn't keep getting relaxed. When my hair was in the middle stages I wanted to perm it sooo bad because I just wasn't used to it. I tried to judge how my new hair was going to look by the little bit of new growth I was seeing. Surprisingly, my hair texture is totally different now than it was when I first started growing out the perm. It went from nappy, to afro-ish, to wavy, to curly all within 1.5 years.

I feel so strongly about my hair because (a) it's all me...no "tricks" to make it look a certain way, and (b) it's the way I truly want it, not the way my MOTHER, SOCIETY, or ANYONE ELSE think it should be. I feel free. But if you had told me that I was going to be chemical free when I was in high school I would have laughed at you and swung my hair right in your face. *lol* Life is funny like that.

[This message has been edited by Poplife (edited January 14, 2001).]

I find it interesting that is this forum and in other discussions I've observed about this subject, women always reference the exact length of their hair when telling their I-cut-it-all-off-to-show-I'm-not-oppressed story. By doing that, it shows that even the enlightened (take a pun if you will) among us have some miles to walk before being over this hair/color thing, IMO. I mean, WHY does it matter that it was "down my back" or "slightly below my bra strap"? Geeeesshhhhhh!

AND, before you jump on me, I've done all the hair permutations too. I ain't tellin' ya how "pretty/long" is is/was, neither! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif

Because people always ask anyway. I said a million times before, it doesn't matter to me anymore because I like my hair short.

It's OTHERS that always want to remind me that I have short natural hair. That's not the first thing I see when I look in the mirror regardless of how I sound on this board.