Without Hazing, your insurance will be lower

Without hazing, your national organization might be richer, and they will be able to grow quicker

Without hazing, many school that eliminated GLOs (Alfred, etc) might have no reason to banned them

Without hazing, Scott Kruger, Walter Dean Jennings, etc will still be alive today.

And without hazing or at least having to work hard to get in instead of following some BS associate member path or being a brother immediately I wouldn't have done it. Anything worth doing is worth working for. I am just one of those people who doesn't like having everything handed to me go figure...

Sorry Godfather, I've seen both sides of this firsthand and that argument is trite and old news. If the system is going to survive, hazing has to be eliminated.

You can pontificate all you want, but if you want your fraternity to be around for future brothers benefit you (meaning your chapter) had better get with the program.

If you are in a mainline national fraternity, I know that your nationals has a policy against hazing. Every single one does. What makes you think that you and your undergraduate brothers know and care more about your organization than your alumni and executive officers?

When you took your fraternal oath, you probably swore to never do anything to hurt or threaten the future of the organization.

Take a look at these threads and see what happens to hazing chapters. But do it with open eyes and an open mind.

I take it by your words associate and just joining you are Refering to LXA!

Well, LXA was the First to Drop "Pledge", I am very proud of that even though I did not agree at the time!

I get the feeling no matter how many things are said on this thread, you are not smart enough to see the finer points of it.:(

You may carry on in your delusional attitued of I am right and everyone else is wrong!:eek:

I can see a bleak future for you and your Chapter if you have a Fraternity, for if they find this out, Well, take your best guess! If you are able to read, you can see the Chapters of Fraternitys/Soroitys who are being closed for this very thing that you call building a Bro/Sis Hood! :(

My chapter has been around since 1885 but yeah out methods must not work...wait that would mean we've been around longer than most frats let alone most chapters.

That might be true, but, I did not know that Your Fraternity was a FRAT?

That might be why Your Frat is not the only one of the Greek Social Organizations! Clue!

The Miami Triad was after The Union Triad if you know your Greek Social History!

Yes, I am well aware of When Your "Fraternity" was started and who else was started there and the same year.

So I guess, you are not that special after all!;)

I have a lot of respect for your "Fraternity", much more than it seems that you have for others!:(

In reading your posts, I guess you are a new member, and think You are the best!

Well, when you grow a bit, you will find that yours is not the only one!

Lets just see after a few years that you do not get a little wiser!;)

If you notice, there are a lot of Alums after signatures!

Self Importance can at times be very underwhelming!

Live and learn, you too may grow old and find out what the real world is!:D

Is Arcon the right spelling?

yea right, you're trying to sound hard to people who could give a rat's ass about you. there are plenty of people on here who probably had a process that makes yours look like a joke.

And posting things on Greekchat like you usually do is just....well...a dick thing to do. :p

Hazing is NEVER necessary. I was not hazed. It was nothing but a positive experience for me. Instead of trying to bond us with stupid hazing incidents, we bonded through sisterhood activities and took tests about SAI. We earned our letters too, but there was no hazing, and I wouldn't have had it any other way.

I can say that with or without hazing, you can develop an extremely tight brotherhood. My chapter does not haze at all. When I attend chapter meetings, to this day, I'm amazed at the level of brotherhood and involvement that our undergrads have in eachothers' lives. I'm amazed at their dedication to Sigma Nu's principles of Love, Honor and Truth. I can't see how you could ever justify hazing and say that you had any respect for love, honor and truth. Our alum chapter is pretty tight as well.

If ya'll have truly been around since 1885 then congratulations! However, you should realize and your alums should be made to realize that in the 21st century, a few things have changed since 1885. For the longevity of your chapter, I urge you to consider revamping your new member education program.

There are certainly things you can do with your new members without hazing, sleep deprivation, etc. to make them "earn" their letters. Trust me, not everyone that wants into my chapter of Sigma Nu makes it either. They must show real dedication to our values.

Impressive.

My chapter has been around continuously since 1862. It is the longest continuously active chapter in our Fraternity (I don't belong to a "frat") which was founded in 1858. It has stopped hazing in order to survive in the new Greek, risk management and university climate. I'll just say one more time, if you folks don't, you will sooner or later join the others listed here in this forum and we will all shake our heads sadly at another loss to the Greek System.

To the other posters -- while I'm not crazy about Godfather's comments and style, I also object to calling people we don't really know ignorant or liars. (He is probably a decent, although misguided guy) Those are highly charged words, and are really personal attacks. I wish I had the power to ban those words from GC. If normal conversation and/or debate doesn't change his mind, heated rhetoric isn't going to either.

I guess this just proves some chapters are different from the norm. Delta has the longest pledge period of any frat and is supposedly the hardest hazing frat on campus, go figure...

If by "different from the norm" you mean they haze, when they know they shouldn't (either from a rules/policies perspective, or perhaps by simple common sense), then I'd rather be part of the norm.

If you feel hazing is SO important that it can't be eliminated without destroying your chapter, why don't you go ahead and advertise the fact - "join our fraternity - we'll humiliate and beat the crap out of you to make you a 'real' man!"...see what kind of response you get from PM's and the rest of the greek/campus community...

k this is a bit of a hijack which might actually be a good thing but i'm sorry is there sthg wrong w/ referring to a fraternity as a frat? some ppl in this post seem to be offended at fraternities being called frats and i've never heard of that before...:confused:

I'm a little confused by your response, but if you're talking about a Delta Tau Delta chapter, and they get caught for the hazing that you claim, they will be closed.