I agree with Mandingo Nupe, and ECLIPSE and somewhat with RAIN MAN. No one has to be culturally Black. I disagree with MN on this though. Being black is more than a racial composition. It is a state of mind, being, and culture. We all have varying degrees of "cultural blackness" be it rural southern to urban ghetto to upwardly mobile to 2nd generation college educated to suburban to little or no contact with other "cultural" Black folks. Have you ever met "physically" Black people who have no concept of Black culture? Who can not interact with other Blacks because they have no cultural connection, frame of reference, or similar life experience. I often forget that there were two other Black seniors in my graduating class of 110 (there were 5 black students). They had nothing in common with the three of us. They grew up with all whites, attended all white schools, churches, orgs, etc. I never considered them sell-outs although everything about them was "white" (speech pattern, hairstyle, dress, carriage) They never even spoke to other Black students or joined the Black Student Group. Some people just don't care to be Black (in the cultural sense) and some just aren't born into it and some are Uncle Toms. Yes Clarence Thomas is an Uncle Tom and so is Ward Connerly. If you make it difficult for other Blacks to feed ,clothe, educate, employ, or otherwise better themselves as you have, then you are an Uncle Tom, regardless of political or social affiliations, or if you down Black folks to make yourself look good to white benefactors or audience, you are a Tom (Larry Elder and his ilk). I don't think Rice and Powell fall into those categories

Back to the issue at hand, thanks for all of the EDUCATED responses. Eclipse I couldn't agree with you more. These people are in no way contributing to society if anything they are what's hurting us. I really wish that people in high positions would do more positive things within our communities. I hope Condoleeza Rice along with other Blacks in high postions take the leadership roles needed in our communities to help make a difference for the better!

Eclipse,

I chose to respond to the question by respondind to you. I have read the above responses, and I agree with a little bit of each. When I think of sellouts, I think of the Apartheid struggle in South Africa, and how they handled sellouts. I wish we had the nerve to do the same; maybe the other races in America would then respect us.

I'm surprised some people here mentioned drug dealers as sellouts. I mentioned something to that effect in October, and got all but 5 responses to it. For the typical black family in America, the drug dealer is the sellout closest to us. We all know someone on crack; and that's why I say that. On the opposite side of that spectrum, we all know Clarence Thomas. The sellouts in between have been defined/exposed by the above respondents; and in my opinion, you in particular. Good answers, yall; and you in particular Eclipse.

Bobby Earl you are too funny but right on point with this comment ...

Anyway, peeked my head in to say Great topic, I have opinions, but I also have a class to train this week ...too busy, you guys continue ...this is getting good!!

The following is a question not a statement!!

Do you think that was negligence on their part?

How can you be black and never pick up a book and read about the struggles of your people? Im not asking you to assume the characteristics of "being black", but the least you could do is be aware, if for nothing else than to make sure you're never a part of the problem.

Serenity: you assume that it was negligence on their part. At the time, they seemed more than content to lead their "colorless" lives. Although we "cultural" Blacks believe that they are missing out, it is really up to the individual. Some people do not want that burden. Natalie Cole speaks eloquently to this. She grew up seperated from Black culture and her mother tried to diminish her "cultural" Blackness. When she got to college at height of the Black Power movement, she was lost, and then tried to reconnect in a self-destructive manner (doing drugs to prove that she was down, etc). Again, I felt sorry for them, bit evidently, they did not care to know and that is their decision. I can't make anyone appreciate something that they don't want and I won't force it on them either.

I honestly haven't heard anyone use the term "sell-out" around me in years. I don't really know what would constitute a "sell-out." I'm guessing it would be someone who refuses to acknowledge their heritage.

I don't think by joining a white greek organization or a certain political party makes one a "sell-out." We are are *NOT*a homogenous group of people who think, believe, act, or behave the same. It's interesting, many white people believe that by the majority of us voting Democractic makes us racist somehow, but that's another topic.

Good question.

[This message has been edited by Talaxe (edited January 24, 2001).]

Hold up, stop the clock, LONGSHOT!!!!
*sound of screeching brakes accompanied by a crashing sound*. Advance to Level 6
(Whew thang)

I answered your initial question with "What difference does it make?", but let me revise that so as to not answer a question with a question: "Condoleezza Rice's political and sorority affiliation should have nothing to do with how black she is, and therefore should not play a role." That is my EDUCATED ANSWER!!!!!

As far as whether you or anyone else think I am a sell-out, I personally don't care. As long as I don't sell out on the Kingdom of God, I am okay with myself AFAIC.

I was also responding to posts from StraightBOS and Mandingo Nupe so not all of the post was directed to you. Maybe I should have made three separate posts, but time was short, so I responded to one post. I apologize if I confused you to that effect. As far as all that other stuff you was ranting and raving about, well, all I can say is "whatever".

Please select a dollar amount from Level 6

RM

I hear you DGstyle and I understand your position. But as I said before, I would never ask anyone to take on the characteristics of "being black". Honestly, who in their right mind would join a club knowing that if they do so they will be persicuted, mistreated, thought of as less than and incompetent? Nobody would, and I wouldn't ask them to. However the fact remains, they Will be treated in that manner Regardless because of the color of their skin. So why not be aware, as not to burden others as a result of your unawareness?

If you are unaware that the playing field is uneven in an unfavorable position for blacks, how CAN you know that abolishing affirmative action is not the answer?

You dont have to march with me, but at least don't be on the other side throwing rocks claiming you didn't know. I don't think that's too much to ask.

I just wanted to say that nothing is more stimulating than good conversation with my people,(well almost nothing). But really, I am glad that we can discuss and disagree on issues that pertain to our community.

Though we all have our own various opinions, and we do disagree (sometimes kinda heatedly),we still maintain respect and love for that person and their viewpoint.

I love U guys man!!! Big group hug.

MN

P.S. If anyone is coming to DC for the NBA All-stars, hit a brother up.

This is an excellent topic. I have to applaud those who made the connection that drug dealers are selling out our communities. Along the same lines, I would define a sell-out (in the broad sense) as someone who is not living up to their potential, whether it be by engaging in illegal stuff like being a drug dealer, or just being a plain, ordinary slacker. People who do that are cheating themselves, their families, and their communities out of experiencing life to its fullest.

So...I would have to say CR and CP are not sell-outs. They are both accomplished people. Just because they don't subscribe to the same world view that I do or engage in activities that are "culturally Black" doesn't diminish what they've achieved.

Spankee's post about some Blacks being assimilated (my word, not spankee's) into the White world and not feeling there's anymore struggle is dead on. But again, what about those Blacks who've accepted that poverty, inequality, and drug dealing are just a part of our communities? I'd say they've forgotten the struggle as well. There is apathy on both ends of the spectrum.

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle

Well said frat, well said!



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KAPPA ALPHA PSI FRATERNITY, INC.
SPR 97
XI LAMBDA

For clarification's sake, Condi didn't attend the 16th Street Baptist Church. Her father is a Presbyterian minister, and his church was near the 16th St Church. She doesn't talk that much about having grown up in Birmingham, but maybe that's because her family left (for her sake, according to many articles I've read) when she was about 9 or 10.

Here's a question...had she been an AKA or DST, but had done NOTHING for the sisterhood or community, would this thread even be taking place? I ask because she is VERY active in Alpha Chi, and has been since becoming an alumna. She is friends with our National President, and recently spoke at our National Convention.

Regardless of her political affiliation and the fact that she DOES remind me of Clarence Thomas (in ways that Gen. Powell doesn't) she is a very likeable, dignified woman. Every article I have read about her fails to mention anything reproachable--she is intelligent, highly moral, well-dressed Black woman who, along with Ruth Simmons, is a great role model for young Black girls.

Good question.



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"There is only one religion, though there are a hundred versions of it." ~George Bernard Shaw

what does this mean?

Again, just asking... http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif


[This message has been edited by AKA2D '91 (edited January 25, 2001).]