While I respect people's choices about what and what not to post, I think that this is an excellent point. I think we 'fear' revealing small chapters because the implication is either that A) we will be accused of thinking those chapters are 'bad' or are 'bad rushers' (and glorying in it) or B) members of that GLO will jump on us because either they think it embarassing that their chapter is 'bad' at school ABC.

The underlying assumption is that chapters who draw smaller numbers are 'weaker' or just plain 'bad'. A lot of people have no problem annoucing their group is large or strong at a particular school (even in rush threads!!!), but I don't see anyone annoucing, "Hey, Suzy PNM, at ABC State U, I know some girls in my sorority XYZ there and it seems like a really small chapter!"

I understand why people don't want to post this info (I know GC folks who would and have gotten pissed if someone posts the numbers and one of the groups is distinctively smaller). However, I agree with AXWhoah that in a perfect world we wouldn't need to worry about such things.

Then again, in a perfect world, every PNM would be pledged, every sorority chapter would be at total... etc. :)

I am an alum of a chapter whose size was under what everyone else around us wanted it to be. We liked having an intimately-sized chapter. I am obviously not ashamed of my chapter.

I am not, however, an alum of a school where a small chapter or a bad year can be the kiss of death. I grew up in the shadow of FSU, and before no-frills started girls would seriously come back home (for good!) if Rush didn't go their way. So, while I can accept our small size as one of our quirks that made us close, I understand that some chapters don't have the benefit of being secure in their size that we can. I don't think it's anyone's business except those related to the situation.

Aaaah! Hi Heather! This is Kerri (obviously, from the name...) - didn't know there were any other Kappas from FSU on this site. :) You should head over the the KKG forum and say hi there. And tell Sarah and Amanda and Prez that I say hi!

I second that! (I'm a Kappa at UCF, by the way.) Dig up the KKG roll call thread and post on it!

While I respect Munchkin's opinion I think that knowing who did well in recruitment, who's small, etc isn't the "kiss of death". By saying it here you're not saying anything the PNM's (or potential PNM's) for that matter wouldn't see going through recruitment. During recruitment we couldn't hide the fact that we were smaller than other chapters cause it showed, the women going through recruitment aren't blind. By not telling GC you're not hiding anything from anyone at that school, they know. And in my earlier post I was wrong, chapter total here is 130, not 120. And like I touched upon before, just saying that they are small right now doesn't mean that they will always be small. I know that we nearly doubled our size during recruitment (our best recruitment ever!) and assuming more of this follows we won't be small for long. In fact, this has been happening with two other chapters here. One was small when I went through recruitment in 2000 and now after making quota for a couple of years they're above total. Things change, just cause a chapter is small right now doesn't mean that they always will be.

You know what's funny is that I probably wouldn't have cared much if you mentioned how each chapter did in the first place, but now I'm all curious! Making a big deal about it just makes everyone want to know more.

I didn't say KNOWING about a bad rush was the kiss of death. I said that, at a school like FSU, a bad rush or a small year can be a bad thing--even though we all know that chapters can change every year. Some schools are just that cutthroat. I just don't think a chapter's business should be dragged around on the internet without their knowledge or permission--especially when we don't know the whole story. Is there anything really wrong with that?

<slight hijack>

One of my chapter's alumi visited your chapter house this year (or last year, not quite sure) and was absolutely thrilled by how welcoming and lovely the FSU Kappas were! Just had to mention it since you gave such a wonderful impression on her that now she keeps saying "You girls should really road trip down to Florida..."... :D

Heading back towards the topic....
 

PenguinTrax,

As an alumnae who's very active and knowledgeable, what is your personal thoughts on expansion at FSU?

Yes, one chapter is considerably smaller but that didn't stop UF from expanding. You may be familiar enough with the situation, is this chapter in a rut? Or was there a sudden shift/chapter divide? (I'm not really expecting you to answer those questions. Just kind of throwing the thought out there 'cause it can affect expansion.)

Would you support FSU expansion within the next two years? Do you feel that it's not really feasible at this time?

Enquiring minds want to know what you think!

(o/t: Anyone know if SK still owns our FSU house? I know it was being rented to a fraternity.)

i'd like to jump into the fray. i am alum., and know the particular house that has considerably less members than the others. one of my dearest friends at fsu was a member. for many years now they have had low numbers in comparison to the other sororities at fsu. i think that it is a testament to their alums. and their sisterhood that they are still around and i'm sure that they will work hard to cob.

adding another sorority is a catch 22-the numbers certainly look like another chapter could be supported, but we wouldn't want to hurt smaller chapters that are already there. it will be a difficult decision for panhellenic to make.

i don't know if the sigma kappa house is still owned by your nationals-ato is currently renting it, but a new greek park for the fraternities is in the works and ato plans to build there. when that happens that would free up the sigma kappa house, the alpha xi delta house, the alpha omicron pi house, and the tri sigma house. all four of those sororities left campus during my time at fsu(it was the late 70's early 80's, and there was a decided disinterest in being greek). it would be great if all four groups could recolonize.

please respect the decision not to post numbers for each particular chapter. it is entirely up to the poster to do what he or she feels most comfortable with. if the desire to know hard facts is too much to bear, i'll bet you could find out on your own.

I have to agree with AXWhoah here.

But, as FSUZeta posted:

please respect the decision not to post numbers for each particular chapter. it is entirely up to the poster to do what he or she feels most comfortable with. if the desire to know hard facts is too much to bear, i'll bet you could find out on your own.

So I respect someone's decision NOT to reveal any more than they are comfy with. However, I do not think that makes them "classy" as someone posted earlier. I don't think I am any less classy because of my curiousity.;)

if people are that nosey I am sure they can find out- after all this is the internet age.

Thanks for everyone's comments. My statement about not posting numbers wasn't so that a particular chapter would be singled out for being marked with 'the kiss of death'. It was because that for the couple of chapters that did not make quota OR who's bids were declined, they are probably in the midst of heavy informal recruitment in order to acheive quota. PNMs lurk on this site and I don't want any of them to form impressions about certain groups based solely on numbers. Decisions should be formed based on comfort level, mutual interests, etc., not numbers.

In response to the other questions - yes, I personally support expansion at FSU. I know there is one chapter that is very small, but the guaranteed bid policy only means that the large groups get larger and the small groups get smaller. At one time, there were many more groups on campus. Sigma Kappa and Tri-Sigma left campus at the same time in 1998. Their houses are still owned by them and available. AOII has over 100 alumnae in Tallahassee and could support the recolonization of their chapter if it ever happened.

There is an interest group on campus that petitioned for expansion 2 years ago. The vote was not in their favor at that time. I have heard that they may petition again this year. I think that bringing a new group to campus will help in a lot of ways - especially since the interest group's preference would bring a lot of women through Recruitment that ordinarily may not have been interested in Greek life. That benefits everyone.

I don't think that the small chapter in question is in a rut. I think that in a lot of ways, they are a victim of circumstance and rumor. Their sisterhood is very strong and their alumnae are incredibly supportive. The chapter was reorganized more than a decade ago, and their national organization is commited to keeping the chapter open. This chapter was very selective during Recruitment this year, cut heavily, and that worked to their benefit - they matched up with some very good women. I heard their skit night was one of the best on campus this year.

I think that's awesome that their nationals is committed to keeping them open. I think the biggest problem with having a small chapter is lack of support from the national organization. I knew a girl who was in XYZ chapter when I went through rush-(arghh, that was 6 years ago!) XYZ was extremely low in numbers compared to all but one other house (ABC was low, but not anywhere near XYZ). After rush they ended up with about 15 girls and quota was around 20-25. Unfortunately their nationals was not pleased with their performance over the past few years (even though they gave bids to some great girls) and closed the chapter. It was so sad to see these girls who were so excited to be new members of this house be released :( Luckily many of them COB'd the other smaller house or rushed again the next fall. My point is that if nationals supports you I'm sure being a small house can be great with a strong sisterhood, but if they don't you may be shut down even though you are very happy with your chapter.

My chapter is ABC in this example. Literally! I've talked about the situation before and the lack of visible National support of XYZ always bugged me and permantently skewed my perception of their Nationals. We doubled our chapter that year (1998-1999) and this past year the chapter was at total and it's completely expected will meet quota and total during formal recruitment this year. :D National support is always important!