You're right, although it does say, "A party at Lamda Chi Alpha," or something very similar. That inplies, along with the fact that the assault occurred (upstairs) in someone's room, that they were in some type of fraternity living unit.

There are a few questions in my mind, like someone who asked how the alleged rapist could hold a girl down while putting on a condom (although it's possible that she was too scared to try to resist or get away). Second, when she yelled "Stop" and he sat up, how much time does it take to dress in a hurry and get away -- and what was he doing while she was dressing for her "escape"? Was he to afraid at that point to try to keep her there?

There are some unanswered questions.

I CAN understand how this girl might end up at the party without her parents knowledge. I used to do it all the time. And, when I was in school there were a number of high school workshops (especially during summer session) where young students are in from all over the state, and one one occassion a few high school girls, looking for beer, ended up at the house where a number of Delts were living for the summer. Nothing happened that I know of in that instance -- but it certainly could have.

Still, as I mentioned in my earlier post, a lot of people weren't thinking. Including the victim.

Finally, while this sounds like a clear sexual assault, and I do believe that "no" always means no, I'm not quite ready to say that in some very minute minority of cases, the victim (female or male) can't bring part of the problem on themselves.

The comment about walking into a party naked and not "asking for it" is absurd -- unless that person in mentally ill. I'm for prosecuting sex offenders to the fullest extent of the law, but reality has to come into the picture somewhere.

Does that mean they "deserve" to be raped. Of course not, but they have actively contributed to the problem. If this young woman was raped, as it appears she was, her reported actions leading up to the assault certainly didn't help her situation any.

edit

By the way, what the heck is the deal with the other woman who invited the victim upstairs for a drink. Was she part of a conspiracy? Had she left? Why? If she didn't leave, why didn't she help?

More questions.

I am actually at home right now and saw the news reports about this last night. The tv reports made it seem like the incident occurred at the fraternity house.

The news reporters had footage from outside the various houses. On one station that taped the Lambda Chi Alpha house while on another station.. they kept showing sigma pi letters which made me think when I first heard the story that it occurred there. Which is kind of very bad reporting on the stations part. Though as you know to the average person greeks are all the same to them..

Ah, the news hounds, of Baskerville!:(

I do not care if it is the XYZ, ABC, Org. it will reflect upon All of us!:o

Remeber, Animal House and Frat Boys were not at the same Schools or Greek Orgs. Just Scripting as usual!:rolleyes:

Makes better copy!

I agree 100% with everything you just said!!!!!

OTW is right on the money with her post!

And we wonder why the majority of rapes aren't reported, so we'll never know the true rate of forcible sexual assault in this country. It's true that she shouldn't have been at the party--but haven't we all been places we should not have been? True, many men are falsely accused--but does that cheapen the very real accusations of many more young women?

Delt, if he has enough experience putting a condom on, he can do it with one hand very quickly. It seems as if she would have been able to get away, but experience with assault victims tends to point to the fact that they're paralyzed with fear.

If this gets to trial, regardless of the outcome, she will be villified and made to look like a common whore--even if it comes out that it was rape in the purest since of the word. Which is a sad commentary on the state of the American legal system.

She did not ask to be raped but both her and her parents should be lashed 5 times on the bottom for being irresponsible.

Now you say that some men are falsely accused and act as if it's no big deal. One of the main reasons I chose not to go to your school is the free-flowing sentiment that screwed Adam Lack so badly.

-Rudey
--Already this guy is villified regardless of whether the charges are true or not. The girl isn't. Look what they did to Michael Jackson :(

Since the Adam Lack case was well before I got to Brown, I don't know enough about it to make assumptions. I bet another reason you chose not to go is because you didn't get in.

Uhm no sweet cheeks, got in.

Now HYP is a different scenario; but if you'd like to talk about that as opposed to the topic, which you couldn't muster enough thought on, I suppose we could.

-Rudey
--Bake me a cake woman!!!

. . . and, under your weltanschauung, he is subject to the same villification via accusation, even before a single word is spoken in trial.

Quaint.

ETA: Nice ad hominem attack there, chuckles - maybe you should have taken a logic/forensics class? I mean, it would have been pass/fail anyway . . .

I guess it's possible for a 19 year old (I think) who was probably drinking to do that -- but I wouldn't trust the outcome. Maybe that's why it "broke."

Your point about being "frozen" is well taken -- I mentioned that possibility, but I still would ask the question.

So, he stopped when he asked her to the second time, according to the article. Maybe that was the first time. Maybe she's doing so she won't be called a slut. Innocent untill proven guilty, unless the case pisses people off, I guess.

Did I say that? Nope. I would like to believe that everyone is innocent until proven guilty. In sexual assault cases, that is rarely the case--on either side.

I think your cheap shots against my alma mater are damned funny. If you can't laugh about yourself, who can you laugh about?

Wow.

OK - If I say that the girl is not a cheap whore if the guy is found guilty, does that invalidate your argument?

Of course not . . .

The point is that, by flipping your viewpoint from before to coddle the accused rather than the accuser, we come to the conclusion that he is being made out to be an absolute monster by a public that chooses not to wait until the results of a trial to determine guilt.

What is missed, of course, is that this MIGHT BE THE CASE - he might be an inhuman beast, just as the accuser might actually be full of complete crap.

Regardless, you stating that you personally don't feel this way carries no weight - against the tide of public opinion, as YOU introduced it, it is an insignificant view. You wanted to discuss macro-phenomena, so I did just that.

Your point was so salient that it need not be repeated above - but you did, and of course you're right: the actual 'results' of the trial have little to do with how some people will view those involved.

So what, exactly, is your point? Can you prove the causitive link between public opinion and lack of rape reporting? If so, why can't you prove a link between public opinion of rapists, and decreasing numbers of rapes? At best, it's an oversimplification, and at worst, an abysmal post hoc fallacy.

I appreciate your compassion, but I think you're oversimplifying, and it's decidedly (and I'll posit, inappropriately) one-sided.

Hey, laugh it up - you decided to flex the ol' academic muscle here. If you want to turn the thread into a scholastic pissing contest, I'm down - just bring the A-game, because all you know is what people on here show you.

Don't assume you're speaking to idiots.

-RC
--Let's see those SATs and SAT II: Chemistrys!