OK, I've seen Acacia wearing shirts that say AKAK, but what do Farmhouse, Triangle and Ceres have on their shirts? Are there any Greek letters at all or do they just spell it out?

At my school, Farmhouse uses FH on their jerseys, and Ceres just spells it out.

Triangle, from what I've seen uses a "T" inside a triangle and the lines of the triangle are also tangent to the endpoints on the bars of the "T". Triangle was also written above that. That's the way I've seen it on a shirt before, could be different in different places.

Mystic Cat: well said and completely correct, as usual.

Farm House is NOT greek. That's not an insult and not intended to take anything away from a fine group. It is merely fact.

Acacia can be considered greek because their name is a greek word. But as far as I know, Farm House does not use any greek nomenclature.

At my school, the Rugby team functioned in exactly the same way as a fraternity, and interacted with the greeks on campus exactly as another fraternity would. That doesn't make them greek.

Only Greek makes you greek.

wptw

But, the fact that they are not greek becuase they don't use Greek does not mean they are not a fraternity. On campuses they must join the governing body you have set up.

Saying they're not greek because of not using greek is like someone who is a member of a general fraternity or sorority saying that TBS, and KKPsi(purely as examples of honoraries and service orgs) aren't really greek becuase they are honorary and service orgs and not general orgs. Why goes GREEK chat give them their own message boards if they're not greek?

I see Farmhouse, Triangle, Acacia, and Ceres are just as "greek" as I am, just cause Phi Sigma Kappa uses greek in our name doesn't mean we're any more of a Fraternity than Farmhouse FRATERNITY or Triangle FRATERNITY. Really what would you call them then if you say they're not greek. Great groups, nice organizations? It's the same thing as saying we've worked so hard to build this community and work together and you helped out alot but since you don't have greek letters you're not really greek and this is the greek community. Who cares if they don't use greek letters or nomenclature? They have everything else in common with the rest of us excet that. They have rituals, secrets, a brotherhood, national HQ, etc. I'm sorry but that seems a little shallow to me that you say they're not greek cause they don't use Greek. Aren't FH and Triangle members of NIC? They were at UIFI and that is a greek institute. I didn't see a rugby team send anyone to it. I even remember an NIC VP saying that all the undergrads there were greek, this included the Triangle members there.

I mean if just having greek letters makes you greek than a guy I know who has formed a groups with his friends as a joke and uses delta alpha nu kappa(DANK) as their letters and got shirts made up are greek, but FH and Triangle aren't?

Hell, if you think about it, none of us are really greek. How can we claim to be greek, yeah we use their letters, nomenclature, and a few symbols here or there, but, how many of us really have ancestry from Greece? We're just piggy backing off of their culture, alphabet, language, but we're NOT greek.

*edited to reword and try to clarify*

Sorry, but your analogy to service and honorary orgs is flawed. The discrimination you described would be purely subjective and not based on any historical premise. By contrast, there was a very specific (and very obvious) historical reason for calling certain fraternities and sororites greek lettered organizations.

In any case, I never said that not being greek = not being a fraternity.

Being a "fraternity" and being "greek" are not necessarily the same thing. The latter is a subset of the former. And one is not necessarily better than the other.

Farm House is very much a fraternity. But they are NOT greek.

GLOs are called GLOs for a reason. That designation is no less valid simply because we've become somewhat loose with our categories and somewhat imprecise with our speech and our reasoning.

wptw

I believe (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that wptw is trying to say that FarmHouse and Triangle are not "Greek" in the sense that they do not use Greek letters (Alpha, Beta, Gamma, etc...). They are still fraternal organizations, which is they they belong to NIC, PFA, or whatever it is they belong to.

I think the confusion results because you "Go Greek" not "Go Fraternal Organization." Saying they are not Greek does not diminish their status as great fraternal organizations, they just aren't greek in the sense that Ceres, Acacia, Alpha Phi Alpha, Kappa Kappa Gamma... are because they do not have Greek letters or words.

On another tangent - the FarmHouse men I know either wore letters that had FarmHouse spelled out or "FH." The Triangles wear the T inside of a triangle, a plain T, or the word "Triangle." CERES always wore "CERES" spelled out, and I do not have the pleasure of knowing any Acacia's. I don't really think that's weird - how many times have you seen shirts that said "SigEp" or "Kappa" or "Theta" or "Delt", etc?

Yes, GeekyPenguin, that's exactly what I'm saying.

PSK, you’ve made a lot of changes with those edits, so I’ll just add this…

Why are you reading judgment or discrimination or some sort of superiority thing into my argument? This is purely a discussion of semantics.

If it makes a difference, for the record I consider Farm House to be every bit as much of a fraternity as my own. And I would even say I consider them every bit as much a part of the greek community as my own fraternity. But strictly speaking, it is incorrect to refer to them a “greek organization” when for nearly 200 years, “greek organization” has meant an organization that defines itself by the use of greek letters. Ask the Farm House HQ how they characterize themselves and I’ll bet you get a nearly identical response.

By the way, a more appropriate parallel would be the humble hamburger. If you make it with ground chicken or with spam or with tofu, is it still a hamburger?

wptw

EDIT: I also consider Ceres non-greek since they opted against the greek name Demeter and went with the Roman equivalent Ceres.

These Organizations were started as a base of what they were founded for.

Farmhouse-Agricultuer ergo Ceres

Triangle-Engineering

Acacia, I am not sure.

But, they all evolved into a Social Fraternity/Sority system who rush those out side of the feilds of study for which they were founded upon. Not having Greek Letters, make them no less Greek Orgs. but without Greek Letters.

The Original Greek Orgs were founded for the same reason but using Greek Letters and the early ones were founded following the Masonic teachings. And everything came to past from there.
Of the Service, music, etc have Greek Leter Names, they are not Greek Social Orgs but using the letters.

So while they are Greek Letter Orgs. so are FH Triangle, Acacia!

That saying why are Greeks with 2 letters better than those with 3.

I *heart* Tom Earp! Well said :cool:

Have to agree with WPTW on this one.

Saying that these orgs aren't Greek doesn't mean that they're not fraternities, or that they're not secret brotherhoods. Saying that they're non-Greek doesn't devalue them at all.

I have no less respect for people in these organizations than I do for people in Greek-letter societies. I don't think anyone else does either.

I would call them fraternities, just not Greek letter ones.

The end.

Amen to that!!! Dang! lol :p

"Acacia" is a greek word, thus in a sense, they are Greek. Even more "greek-er" than the rest of us, because they are using Greek word instead of Greek letters.

My .02 cents ;)

I agree so much, I went back in time and said it yesterday...

I wonder why so much defensiveness followed a simple empirical observation. Not to get too Carrie Bradshaw on you, but: Is there a “war of legitimacy” going on in the fraternity and sorority world?

wptw