jazbri,

Preach it! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif You make some very good points in your post. All I can say is folks need to pick up When Chickenheads Come Home to Roost by Joan Morgan. She discusses many of these exact issues. Specifically, she discusses the myth of the STRONGBLACKWOMAN. Let me clarify. She sees nothing wrong with black women being strong, but she does she a problem with black women trying to be superwoman, i.e. flexin' out of control, trying to do everything for everyone, except ourselves. It is, of course, extremely important to be involved, and to care about one's community, but STRONGBLACKWOMEN often do this at the expense of their own personal well-being and their intimate relationships often suffer. This may be because they subscribe to the philosophy that they don't need anyone and are not in touch with their emotions, because they are afraid to look "weak." So, jazbri, Joan would probably agree with some of what you are saying.

She also talks about the ENDANGEREDBLACKMAN. Women know what I am talking about, because everyone has heard at least one woman say, "Oh there are no good black men...they're all in prison, gay, dawgs, uneducated...." The list goes on. Joan Morgan also talks about how black men are seen as endangered because they supposedly have a rougher time in our society; they, more than the black women who is educated and "taking all the jobs", are being "oppressed by the man." What these beliefs lead to are a general idea that because men are so endangered, women should lower their standards for these men and not be so successful, etc. etc. (Joan Morgan points out that this is why you see some of the most on point sistahs with the most tired of brothas.) Women feel like they must settle because they really don't have much to choose from.

On the other hand, Morgan seems to say that women are too materialistic and they focus on the wrong things when trying to determine who's a "good" man. (I've heard many men get heated over this one.) Women miss out on perfectly good men when they reject brothas on the basis of the job he has, or the car he drives, etc. etc.

On a personal note, jazbri, I don't think it's a question of a return to our more "feminine" selves - a woman how is successful and on point is certainly feminine! - I think it is more of achieving some sort of balance. People (Women) should put as much effort into their intimate relationships and their personal connections as they do into their professional lives and social contributions.

Sorry for the long post. I guess we both had lots to say!! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

Peace Love and Progression
B.N.

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"I thought making a record and receiving some form of public affirmation would bring me the love I desired in my life, only to find that what I wanted no one could give, and what I searched for lived in my heart waiting to be discovered."
-Me'shell Ndegeocello

goodness http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif my my my, ok i agree disagree and don't know, but i appreciate all that was said. hmmmm well let me ask this, why did the black woman all of a sudden feel the need to take care of her self so much and her family/community, could it be that the black man with all his oppression etc. was not getting the job done http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif someone had to take up the slack. my boyfriend is younger then me and still has many years before he gets his degree (if he gets it, cause they are not easy to come by) but i believe in him. he doesn't have a nice car, it runs, its clean. he is intelligent, but i'm more cultured so to speak. i make more money then him, drive a nicer car, i technically am the breadwinner, you know if i looked at it from these perspectives then i would be lowering my standards, its not fair, but unfortunately many many sisters unless they choose to remain single or marry outside their race will have to marry men who are not on their economic or educational level, but as long as he is ambitious, loves you and is going for his then i don't see the problem, that's just life, that's the plate we were handed as blacks in this country, but it will not always be that way, i hope, eventually the majority of the brothers have got to rise to the occassion, so we don't always have to.

All of this is true. Did anyone realize that this is almost an all female conversation?
Here we are in a frat room. ALONE http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

I guess I am a male basher. That is what my fiance tells me. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif I just have a hard time when it comes to men and women relating because we think so differently sometimes about some subjects.

For example:
My best friend is married. Her husband was the one who really wanted to get married. (she was still in school.) Guess what, now that she has graduated he feels that his position has been threatened (he said so). She make more but she always has. He expects her to work just as long as he does then come home and cook, clean, entertain guest and then give "it" up. Recently, he came home found that she did not put away the laundry and called her a lazy f-ing b----. Then she said if it is like that (and she is the mother of his child) then maybe she sould not be his wife. So he took her keys (house car and all) and told her to leave. When she tried to get HER car keys he pushed her. The only thing that saved her was her brother heard it all and caught her. She would have hit her head on the corner of a wall. This all took place in front of their child.
I say all of this to say, she tried to yield and be supportive but his lack of accomplishment almost caused her harm.
Where do you draw the line between giving the support that is needed and stroking someones ego.
My experience has been that a lot of men need to feel superior. They need someone to look up to them as a child does to a parent. I read the book Men Are From Mars, Women Are.... The man that wrote the book said that men need to be needed but if you are too needy that is dependent and they don't like that either. They want you independent but not too independent. I don't understand.
I love black men. I want then to feel good about themselves because they are our kings. But why do I have to be made small for him to stand tall?
I want to be his queen and if I remember correctly, queens are just as loved and respected and well taken care of.

Yes, I asked my fiance but he is the same, he is good to me but let me even sound pro something female and he thinks I'm saying I don't need men. I just don't get it.

I can be supportive but I can not be subserviant.
I think some men have their head in the fifties when women did not think that they could breathe without their husband's approval. That is just not me. I can't do it just to help a man feel like he is in control. I don't want to control him but I need him to realize that he does not control me.
(When I say he/him I don't mean my fiance I just mean a man, any man)
I'm sorry that this is so long but it has been bottled up.

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Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc.
L.R.O.G.
#1 Fall 97
Omicron Pi

I guess that I am the only one who found Fatto's comment a little disturbing?

-Teresa

PositivelyAKA:

http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif I wasn't sure if you were disagreeing with jazbri's or my post, but either way...I do understand where you are coming from. Somebody had to pick up the slack. And I certainly think that if a man is right with and respects himself and loves and respects you, there shouldn't be a problem, regardless of what kind of car he drives, what kind of degree he has or doesn't have...

Just my two cents...

B.N.

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"I thought making a record and receiving some form of public affirmation would bring me the love I desired in my life, only to find that what I wanted no one could give, and what I searched for lived in my heart waiting to be discovered."
-Me'shell Ndegeocello

My brother this year married a caucasian woman. Needless to say, I was devastated when the whole thing went down. YES, I was rather ruthless because I knew he way buying into the fact of what amerikkklan society what televising and advertising. However, I did attend both his wedding ceremony and reception. And although I chose not to be in his wedding (YES, I am the one who will have to face God and explain my actions) it basically broke down to this one thought: Am I going to ruin my brother's and my relationship for the rest of our lives for just a minimum of 2 hours of smiling even if it's fake? Can't I smile for just 2 hours? And I answered yes to both questions...

I am a trying to broaden my experiences and become a Pan Afrikanist, much like W.E.B. Dubois, Nkembe Nkrumah and Ntokaze Shange (sorry for the spelling). The fact is pham, is why would this society want to espouse the development and strengthen the Afrikan family? Isn't it within unity, there is strength? Do you think the europeons would want that to seriously happen, really?

I love my bruhs and they have treated me like crap. And as much crap as I have taken from them, I still love 'em. I can't help myself to the taste of chocolate! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif

So for those out there that could go either way, never it ain't over till it's over. Ultimately what comes around, goes around and if you ain't straight with yourself, you won't find anyone to make it straight for jah...

I guess that's why HBO's Sex and the City is so popular...

Just my $0.08 cents worth.

[This message has been edited by AKA_Monet (edited October 10, 2000).]

Teresa:

No I found it disturbing as well. I really didn't know what to say exactly. I didn't want to just snap off http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/cool.gif I guess I am over here contemplating an intelligent response. I'm contemplating not responding at all. After all, even though I strongly disagree with him, he is entitled to his opinion just as everyone else is. You know what I mean?

Peace Love and Progression
B.N.



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"I thought making a record and receiving some form of public affirmation would bring me the love I desired in my life, only to find that what I wanted no one could give, and what I searched for lived in my heart waiting to be discovered."
-Me'shell Ndegeocello

Well Fatto, if you are still out there, please feel free to elaborate on you comment!

-Teresa

Yall aint NEVER alone ova heeya! Yall know where yall at!!!!!!! We just laid back, checkin' thangs; letting yall let it out- that's all.

[b][QUOTE]Originally posted by Teresa2000:
I guess that I am the only one who found Fatto's comment a little disturbing?

-Teresa

At first I found the comment disturbing as well. But then I decided to take it for what it's worth. This person is obviously just trying to start some mess in the A Phi A forum and I think everyone realizes that. The best way to deal with this type of post is to ignore it.


AKA_Monet, as usual you have made some very profound statements.

Now I have a very long post to add. This is an email that was sent to me.


All of a sudden I feel like baking....Feel Me Sistahs?

Black Man Recipe

I'm making a black man cake cause I'm hungry as hell.
And the sweet tooth I have, only a brother can break the spell.
Let me reach into my spice rack to see what I can get.
To make a mix that will stick to my stomach you can bet.

2 cups of intelligence,
1 cup of sugar brown.
Cause he's got to be sweet, mental deep and sound.
Cinnamon is always good to accent the taste.
A few cups of culture so he's down for his race.
You see, I won't bite into anything that's not conscious of its own.
That's why I stick to chocolate and leave angel food alone.
I am adding butter cause he must be smooth.
2 raisins for the dimples will also be cool.
I must add some nuts so he can reproduce.
Can't leave him hanging cause I like kids too!
I think I'll add a little salt to balance him out.
And a dominant profile to show he has clout.
For a responsible man I'll throw in some yeast.
I'll add 8 cups of strength and into the oven bake.
turn it to 360 degrees to balance out his mental state.
Now that it's done I'm sorry sistas I won't share the wealth.
That's why I'm sharing the recipe because I'm eating this Black man all by myself.

Good Black men are indeed all around us. We pass them on thestreets, in the malls and the halls at work. Most we can't see because we don't know what a good man looks like. He usually isn't flashy enough or rich enough to turn our heads. He might not wear a suit or push a Lex. He might not have a "body like Arnold with a Denzel face".

But as you mature, you realize it's better to find someone sho's got your back, than someone who turns your head. A good man doesn't wholeheartedly agree with everything you say. He doesn't just tell you what you want to hear, then do the opposite. He doesn't declare how sensitive, caring, sweet, sincere, yadda, yadda he is. (He won't have to because it shows).

He has his own opinions and you may clash, but he doesn't have to degrade you to prove he's right. He even admits at times to being wrong, especially if you are willing to do the same.

A good man isn't going to meet every item on your checklist. He is human with frailties and faults mixed in with all of his wonderful, strong attributes. He needs your love and respect. He needs to feel that you don't live to "catch" him doing something wrong so you can declare "Aha! I knew you were a dog!"

A good man doesn't necessarily give you a huge birthday or Valentine's Day gift. He shows his love in the way that are comfortable to him.

Don't judge him by TV standards. Noone is living that fairy tale for real. You'll miss out on your own fairy tale by buying into the myth that our men are no good.

It's just not true.

Black men, we salute you and thank you for who you are and all you've done.

Now if we could just get some to respond to this thread.......

Fatto, you have got to be joking!

-Teresa

There may be some merit in your statement about bruhs being intimidated. Some may be. With the number of educated sistas on the rise, bruhs SEE yall's economic independence daily. When an incarcerated bruh is released, his employment options aren't that great. He wont make the kind of money that pays the bills and affords him the ability to wine and dine yall like yall want. Many of yall know the brothas's plight, and refuse to date him unless he's "drivin'" this kinda car, or livin' in his own. You may not even acknowledge a brotha if his gear aint right; yet THAT brotha could be THE BEST MAN YOU WILL EVER HAVE. But you won't know it unless you lower yo standards a bit, and give the brotha some time.

I don't know. Maybe it is just me! I guess I had some bad speriences (as my students would say. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

Bruhs! Did yall check her out? Man if I wasn't in the jam I'm in, I would HAVE to find her!

What you talkin 'bout Original Ape?