For the Record: NUPE4LIFE has never supported the idea of fraternity or sorority sweethearts. The only sweethearts, per se, recognized by KAPPA ALPHA PSI FRATERNITY, INC. is our KAPPA SILOUHETTES.....wives of Kappa men. Now Mr. Ross, if you think even the idea of our Silouhettes could in the future become the basis of a woman suing for membership, I beg to differ. Kappa men value the relationship between the organization and it's Silouhettes as life partners and as aides to our great fraternity. Again, I do not support sweetheart organizations.

Mr. Ross, you seem to have a negative view of the way the D9 is conducting itself these days. You elude to the fact that we might now survive do to financial and other reasons. Subtract sarcasm: What do you suppose we do in order to ensure our survival?

But realistically women joining a D5 or BLO through Sweetheart Orgs. is a reality as long as there is a Homecoming court. I remeber every year at around Homecoming time hunderds of girls(mostly freshmen) doing almost anything just to be on somebody's court. They even went as far as making a "Ms. Cafeteria staff"(you know I went to HBCU) but of course our Ms. Black and White was the finest of them all!! I mean as long as time has been going on sweethearts have been apart of the collegiate fratenal system and to deny that fact is just plain ignorant. But what it has come down to is that women are not going to be treated like servants or groupies to Frats or Fellowships no longer and they will get what's theirs. brothers better start recognizing and realize that it's not the 60's anymore and women "pledging" to become a sweetheart is not and will not be tolerated.

Re: and to piggy back
 

Wow...I had never heard of that. You learn something new everyday ;)

I have to honestly say that this is one of the dumbest thing I've EVER heard. Okay, so a Que Pearl learns some things that PERHAPS she shouldn't learn just being a sweetheart (whomever taught her those things and/or made that info accessible needs to be put in the Full Nelson and). She's an Omega now? Uh....

What about all those men out there CLAIMING to be in sororities? If a man gets hold of some sacred info and whatever...can he sue DST and make us add him to the roster?

But, regardless of what the courts say...you're NOT a member of a FRATERNITY (that's not co-ed) if you're a chic.
If you THINK you are...you DESERVE to be disrespected (life's lessons are tough).

Shoot, if you IMAGINE you can jump off a bridge and fly...it doesn't mean you can...some things are JUST your imagination.

I won't even GET INTO how I feel about sweethearts. I WILL say that these women sign up to be a sweetheart...and know that it is for a FRATERNITY. A fraternity's (that's NOT co-ed) mission statement probably addresses the fact that it's a group of MEN MEN MEN MEN MEN MEN MEN founded for whatever purposes to encourage whatever values.

If these women go into this expecting to come out of it an actual member of that fraternity...these women aren't too bright.

If you're not too bright...we can't save you, nor should we be responsible for your lack of brain cells. Go lick your wounds...learn your life's lesson...have a Coke and a smile.

It's definitely about political correctness. Let's include people (even when it makes NO sense) because NOT including people will lead to undesirable consequences.

Definitely hold these fraternity men, who acknowledge sweethearts, responsible. I've been saying that even BEFORE I was a Delta. However, holding these fraternity men responsible also means holding these GROWN COLLEGE women responsible. These fraternity men should get sanctioned by their national entities AND these sweethearts should get relinquished from their "duties," a new brain for expecting more than what they paid for, and sent along their merry little way. Sounds like an even split and a done deal.



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[B]
A good thought....

However, you have eluded that this issue is deeper than this. To me, are you saying the "bruhs" and "sisterfriends" need to work harder if they want to avoid this happening? That commitment to fraternity/sorority issues should be the main goal instead of focusing on a "pledge" process? Just asking......

The Sweetheart Thing: is a red herring because less than 25% of chapters have them and of those that have them, maybe 10% take it too far. As far as male auxiliries, they were numerous when I was in college. There were MIAKAS for AKA and Delta Mids/Beaux for DST. Just about every Bruh im my chapter was a MID or MIAKA.

LAWSUIT: face it, you can be brought into court for anything these days, right, wrong, or indifferent. It costs a lawyer nothing to throw some ish against the wall a see if it sticks. Political Correctness is not a conservative construct, it is the reality of granting people victim status because things don't go their way. I know that that is the norm in California, but the rest of the country still believes that there needs to be some merit.

What is a FRATERNITY/SORORITY: is it a business, is it a community service organization, or is it a brother/sisterhood? That needs to be decided. You seem to believe it to be all 3 in that order. Personally, where you stand on this decides how you see how your org should act and go forward. Maybe because Delta is a Service Sorority and Alpha considers itself as "Servants to All", community service/business is the most appropriate course. Pledging as a means of membership may mean little. Omega, on the other hand is foremost, a Brotherhood (not at the exclusion of business/community service), as espoused by our motto and how one becomes a brother is very important. Distinctions between financial/active is not as important as whether or not you are a good "Bruh". If we are to be de facto or adjunct social service agencies, lets just eliminate the whole pretense of the Greek label. Why be greek? If the trappings of undergraduate greek life are so petty, pledging, stepping, hanging at the plot, greek week, etc are worthless, eliminate it all together. Why not meld everyone into APO or GSS. Let 100 Black Men take over the frats and NCNW take over the sororities? When we stop being so schizophrenic by trying to be all things to all people and be TRUE to OURSELVES, we can address the problems.

We can start by acknowledging that single sex organizations are not sexist but rather shaped to their particular purpose.

Had to chime in on this.
 

Since the word soror means sister, A Service Sorority can be roughly translated to a service sisterhood. What we are is a sisterhood, and what we do is community service, all within the legal infrastructure of a nonprofit corporation (business.) I don't see anything schizophrenic about that.

I am also curious as to how you define a good "bruh" if being a financial, active contributor to the brotherhood is not an important qualification?

I agree about political correctness. It's not a made-up concept to prevent people from empowering themselves. What is and isn't a worthy cause is relative. EXAMPLE: if a drag queen wants to be homecoming queen and is told NO because he is a MAN (whether he feels like one or not)...allowing that person to be homecoming queen from fear of backlash is falling victim to political correctness.



I hear ya. What Omega is to you...and what a GOOD BRUH means to da Bruhs...is something that only YOU (and da Bruhs can know or debate over). I believe that we should stop trying to be all things to all people...that could be another thread though ;)

Quote:

Originally posted by DoggyStyle82 What is a FRATERNITY/SORORITY: Omega, on the other hand is foremost, a Brotherhood (not at the exclusion of business/community service), as espoused by our motto and how one becomes a brother is very important. Distinctions between financial/active is not as important as whether or not you are a good "Bruh". If we are to be de facto or adjunct social service agencies, lets just eliminate the whole pretense of the Greek label. Why be greek? If the trappings of undergraduate greek life are so petty, pledging, stepping, hanging at the plot, greek week, etc are worthless, eliminate it all together. Why not meld everyone into APO or GSS. Let 100 Black Men take over the frats and NCNW take over the sororities? When we stop being so schizophrenic by trying to be all things to all people and be TRUE to OURSELVES, we can address the problems.]

I agree emphatically.

Quote:

Originally posted by DoggyStyle82 We can start by acknowledging that single sex organizations are not sexist but rather shaped to their particular purpose.

Lawrence, I completely understand your point. However, it's all about how you define "political correctness." My definition ONLY INCLUDES incidents such as the smell-handicapped dude and people who want to sue McDonald's b/c they're fat. I would tell smell dude to wear and mask and get over it. I would tell the McDonald's people to use some self-restraint and stop feeding their asses McDonald's.

This society is such that anything goes b/c NO ONE should be offended or left out of ANYTHING. Well, guess what, we have people with lawsuits against their schools b/c losing in a game of volleyball during gym period made them feel inferior. If there was a giant hand that could go across the country in one swoop and pimp slap these people...and bring them to their senses...that would be great.

Question....
 

Considering the recent rally to legislate frivolous lawsuits, do you think that
(Originally posted by DoggyStyle82)
We can start by acknowledging that single sex organizations are not sexist but rather shaped to their particular purpose?
....which would mean lawsuits of this type is in fact frivolous? :confused:

Re: Had to chime in on this.
 

Thanks for your input, but the schizophrenia that I was referring to was not that. Delta Sigma Theta is a perfect model for what it does and what it attempts to do. But if you were to judge Delta or any other BLGO on its most pressing issues, most of it would center on the sisterhood/brotherhood aspect from which most problems emanate (relations between Grad/UG, Intake, Pledging/Hazing, Real vs. Paper, the resulting lawsuits, Ghosts/Renegade Members, members who are non-financial due to the lack of brother/sisterhood they see after U/G. That is the schizophrenia. Many of us in Grad are so busy about the business, that we forget the "bond". Meetings are simply gatherings for "business associates", and not people who share an un-decipherable bond that can't be understood by the uninitiated. Again, if the goal is to be "an unincorporated business that does community service" why not eliminate undergrads or at least all of the social aspects of Greekdom? Why have intake since the real bonding and work takes place afterward? That is the schizophrenia. Eliminate the pretense and you don't have to worry about who pledged harder, who is paper, who skated, about chapters that are t-shirt wearers, about stepping, strolling, claiming fictitious relationships and bonds. You don't have to worry about any of those things that "real, financial and active members" concern themselves with. Just be about the "real work" of XYZ. If the "real work" of XYX is "community service", eliminate the "bond" that is causing the confusion/schizophrenia, the stepshows, the plots, the parties, homecoming, the rivalries. Let's just be about the "real business" and we will save ourselves all of this wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Secondly, I never minimized being financial and active. That makes a good member, that makes a better member than an unfinancial "good Bruh". A "good Bruh" is someone you ask to stand at your side as you marry your Black Queen. A "good Bruh" is who you ask to to be your child's Godfather, a "good Bruh" will help you without asking questions like "how much? or "how long will it take?" A "good Bruh" will always set you out, provide a crust and a corner, a "good Bruh" will always be an asset to his family, community, and professional endeavors, a "good Bruh" will always represent Omega in its highest light. Now, none of these characteristics are necessitated by being financial or making chapter meeting on time. Considering that I am working on my Life Membership and that I am a Chapter Advisor and former Grad Chapter Basilues, I fight the reclamation fight all the time, I know the value of financial and active members to the success of our programs. But a "Brotherhood" that lasts a lifetime is not defined by financial status, but from the common bond that was forged over some burning hot sands. Now if you want to be my business partner or my fellow laborer in altruistic endeavors, I'll take a good member.

Bro. Lawrence:

Its obvious that the Sweetheart issue is some major campaign of yours. I'll defer to you on the quantity of Sweethearts. The Omega circles that I travel in, I see very few of them compared to my undergad days. In my chapter alone, we had about 60 of them and the Kappas had at least 200 Sweethearts. The bottom line is that adult women cannot be exploited in a volunteer organization without their willing participation. Being a Sweetheart is not a mandatory college experience. The 10% that I referred to is that Brothers were teaching or doing inappropriate things to/with their Sweethearts, not neccessarily something that was worth litigation.

Political Correctness:
Like ChaosDST states, Political Correctness is not about the sensible. Its about coercing others to adhere to a point of view just to make people feel better about themselves, many times to the detriment of others. No one can play dodge ball now because the fat kid gets hit first. The school choir can't sing "Come All Ye Faithful" at the school "Holiday" Program, heck you can't even use the name of the holiday in the program. Dartmouth making Greek organizations coed or they will be banned is Communism. It is forcing people to think and act the way that you want them to because "you" believe that you are right and by default that everyone else is wrong or at minimum, some unevolved fascist. Education is about teaching people alternative viewpoints and theories, not forcing them on you. To use the threat of lawsuit and financial insolvency does not make one's position right.

Isn't it funny that how one was "made" was never such a divisive issue until it was changed wholesale. Can you quote for me the same statistics of ratio for financial/non-financial for each decade. My hunch is that there isn't a tremendous variation or that that variation has been exacerbated by the divisiveness of intake.

As I stated to the esteemed LadyGreek, I never diminished the importance of being financial. In terms of "Brotherhood", being a "good Bruh" is not impacted by one's financial status. If you take my statement in the context in which it was rendered, it was about how Omega values "Brotherhood" , not to the exclusion of financial obligations, but in "brother to brother" relations. Your illustration from the events of 1931 illustrate my point. It was extremely hard for Brothers to be financial during the depression, especially those whose savings were depleted, but when called upon, the "good Bruhs" show up. As an aside, most of our organizations would be in exceptional financial shape if it weren't for lawsuits eating up ourr operating capital. Even if you relaimed 50% of your membership, that is more money for a lawyer to go after. They know just how much of your assets to seek.

Community Service:
We are doing a great deal of community service. For those in Grad chapters that are juggling jobs, families, school, church, and a social life, we are doing a whole lot for a brother/sisterhood. Yes we can always do more. We can do more if we kept more of our money from lawyers also. But the question remains, are we as Black Greeks responsible for every aspect of social service? Are our organizations specifically designed for those tasks or are we brother/sisterhoods that practice altruism. My point that I will beat to death is that if I wanted to belong to an organization dedicated solely to social service, I. will do it through 100 Black Men. What I get with Omega is much more and very different. I don't want to ruin my fraternal experience by so focused on business that I forget my "brotherhood". You can't be all things to all people, nor serve two masters.

Re: Question....
 

I would say they are frivolous. There's a difference between a young lady fighting for admittance into VMI and a young lady fighting for admittance into Omega Psi Phi.

This society has become increasingly ridiculous in its attempts to legitimate faulty and even blasphomous claims.

A big culprit in a lot of this is the ACLU (damn them to hell for taking the fight for civil liberties "too far"...and pardon my French). If anyone regularly watches the Bill O'Reilly Factor on FOX News network...you will know what I'm talking about.


<---still waiting for that giant hand to swoop across AmeriKKKa

This is great!
 

I have to say that to me this is one of the best discussions I have seen on any message board. Two dynamic brothers making their different points intelligently and with great articulation. I'm loving it!

Doggy, thanks for your response to my post. And then to refer to me as esteemed, Lawd I am fanning myself. Lawrence, see this is why you are a good author. Love you both! :D