Is that by design or by tradition?

It doesn't matter to me one way or the other, I just think this is an excellent topic.

back in the day design.....we turned down like 80 petitions. Now it still influences decsions on where to start colonies.

Re Psi U, I think it is far easier for a fraternity to make that decision than a sorority, simply because there are 3 times as many NIC fraternities as NPC sororities. The competition for potential members isn't the same.

I have a lot to say about this subject, as someone who goes to a small state school that isn’t that selective. Are y'all saying that people that go to schools like this aren’t as GOOD as people who go to better schools? I personally think that I am an as good, if not better contribution to my glo. I scored very high on my ACT, graduated top five in my high school class (in a class of 1200 graduates), was a class officer, and I think I would be just as marketable at any "better" school as I am right here where I am now. Just because a glo is composed of people who go to a school with a less developed academic (or other) reputation, does not mean that they do not have a great, great, great organization with great, great, great members. And just because these people go to these "lesser" schools in the first place, are they not good enough to have your precious organization on their campus? It seems to me that a glo is supposed to be about true sisterhood, brotherhood, and concern for their community and other service oriented concerns. And although we were all meant to be part of an organization that is selective (that is what makes us special), but I am pretty sure that most people's glos were meant to be about being part of an amazing group of people that care, not about being snobby and not allowing our organization to colonize at a less competitive school because the potential members aren't as good as those who go to an ivy league school. By WHAT standards are these groups potentially not as good???

If your GLO is not expanding, its die-ing.
 

If there are 3,000 4-year colleges, and you limit your GLO to the top 10 percent, that's 300 possible chapters (and I don't think even TKE, LXA, or SPE have that many active chapters.)

I think there are GLOs at 650-700 campuses, so no National is even at half the campuses.

Some of these old line GLOs, like Psi U, may say they only go to "Tier I/II" schools, but if you look at their roster of chapters they have made many exceptions. If some alum's kid was going to XYZ college, and wanted to be a Psi U, XYZ was soon elevated to Tier I/II (perhaps in exchange for a few $$$, a donated house, etc. from the alum.)

During the heydey of TKE/LXA/SPE/DZ expansion in the decade of the 1960s, TKE installed 23 or 27 chapters in one school year. There were so many new chapters, that each only got a few paragraphs in the TKE magazine.

Many of these were "pioneers" - the first national GLO on a campus. Now, 40/50 years later, some of the pioneers are the oldest and largest on campus, and now watch as the other GLOs try to colonize/charter new groups. SX and SAE and others may have laughed in the 1960s as TKE/LXA/SPE/DZ attempted to start from scratch at some big-name places, but now TKE/LXA/SPE/DZ laugh as SX and SAE and others try to start colonies at some of these former state teacher's colleges, which now are major universities with 1,000s of students.

Of course, some of the TKE pioneers and charters in the 1960s died slow and agonizing deaths - but in general TKE is a post-WWII fraternity and fairly healthy due to the efforts of its expansion leaders.

Basicly I believe that if your GLO is good, you should spread the word to more good students at more good campuses. If your GLO is not expanding, its die-ing.

I don't think expanding to junior colleges is much of an issue, since the NPC at least (I'm not sure for the fraternities) forbids NPC orgs to have chapters there.

I was asking partially because if you look at different sororities, more so than fraternities I think, you will see a real difference in where they are located. Sometimes it's geographical (Phi Sig in the NE, Phi Mu in the South), but other times it is prestige - and I'm not the person who ranks schools. If you don't like rankings, complain to US News and World Report or the parents who push their kids to Harvard - or the sororities who won't colonize certain places! While I do believe you can get a better education with smaller classes, brighter classmates, sharper professors who love to teach, and a rich extracurricular experience, any accredited school offers a quality education, and brains are not the only requirement for sorority membership.

Lately most Greek expansion has been to either small private institutions or to state schools that are primarily commuter. These usually are schools that didn't have much of a Greek system in the past. And I'm noticing the same few sororities colonizing at these institutions - D Phi E, A Xi D, Theta Phi Alpha are a few that come to mind (I'm not saying they are the only ones). Given that these are not the biggest or richest nationals, my guess is that some other nationals are choosing not to colonize at these schools. I am wondering - will the ones who didn't colonize be sorry later, or will they feel happy with their choice down the road?

I think talk of elitisim is beside the point - GLOs are supposed to be the elite. You're supposed to choose the best men and women on campus, right? So the question is, should that be extended to only choosing the best campuses as well?

My personal feeling is no, up to a point. There are a FEW schools that in my experience do such a poor job of education I do not want AXD to be represented there. But that is a very small segment of schools - certainly not anything just below Harvard or the top 10 percent! I would not rule out, for example, most small commuter colleges. I'm thinking instead that maybe the bottom 5% I wouldn't colonize at.

It could be kinda that the reason that some GLO's choose schools because of ther prestige beacuse if they are in an elite school, the average kid would be better off financially than someone going to a less prestigous school, thus it would make sence that the chapter there would have a better chance of being finacially stable, and have a surviablity rate than ones in less well off schools....(I really dont believe this, but it just popped into my head while trying to figure out an inpossible essay question, you will find many holes in this argument.)

Fraternities with chapters at junior colleges are eligible for membership in the NIC. The NIC does not forbid junior college chapters.

Why would it be easier for a fraternity to only expand at top schools because there are 3 times as many NIC fraternities? Wouldn't it be tougher because of all the competition?

I think it would be easier for a sorority because they have so much less competition.

The thing about commuter schools is that most students have other outside commitments such as full time jobs, babies, etc.--so many have little time left for extracurriculars. I know that at the U of Hawaii it was hard to round up a goodsized Angel Flight chapter because so few people hung around the campus after classes were over for the day.

Not only do you need decent numbers to form GLOs but you need a good percentage of that number to spend a fair amount of time on them.

Hoosier, very well put!!

LXA, wil not go to 2 years schools as is writen, 4 year schools!

LXA in 1909 went only to Large schools. They helped a fledgling Fraternity, TKN, start which went to State Schools.

In 1939, the 2 merged to be the biggest merger in GreekDom History!

It was out of neccesaty becaus of the times! "WAR" and many Chapters were closing!

At one time, LXA and TKE talked of a merger. What a differnt structure todays Organizations might have been!

Why was there new Groups, because the Union and Miami Triad would not expand to certain schools!

Yes, as Hoosier says, there is a lot of laffing today, but many of tehm are expanding now as we did many years ago, or they are so small that they mean very little!

madmax - I said it would be easier for them to make that decision. If for example, Psi U says outright they will only go to Ivy League schools, no one is going to get their panties in a bunch because there are so many other choices.

For a NPC sorority to say they will only expand to state colleges, or the Ivy League or wherever, runs contrary to the NPC expansion policies where ALL sororities not on the campus are invited to present. Theoretically every group has an equal chance.

Basically the attempt for all members to be "equal" is a driving force in the NPC and not the NIC.

I think it depends on the school. I would rather start new chapters at some of the schools in Florida such as U of Miami, FSU or UF vs Harvard or Princeton. I dont think their greek systems are too strong.

My experience....
 

When I was in school I was in a local that went inter/national-- I went to an academically competitive liberal arts college in the Midwest--2000 students total. And I can tell you that none of the larger, more prominent NPC groups were interested in my campus (we had two groups interested at the same time). We received interest from all but two of the groups that joined NPC in 1951--and one who had joined prior.

I think is depends on many things-- is the inter/national expanding? What image does the campus have? Are there alumnae in the area (that can help or vouch for the quality of the institution)? Are our resources wisely spent here? Some of the larger groups may think that a group of under 50 in size will not be a wise use of their money since the financial return is not that great.

As for DPhiE (someone mentioned us) we are selective with the campuses we choose to expand to-- we have a extensive process, a set of standards and expectations that should be met before we agree to expand. Obviously, those may be different from other organizations but we are growing steadily and seeing positive results from this process. We're proud of our colonies and know they will only add to our sisterhood.