"Read some of the subjects on the research done on how people in their 20-30's live their lives."

". . . because there is such a problem with this new generation of young people (with their moral system already in place before they got to the organization). . .

How DO we live our lives (I'm 22, so your example includes myself)? We live by example. We live how our parents taught us, you're targeting your daughter's generation here. If you want to blame anyone for the way 20-30 year old act or live their lives, blame the parents, which would mean that you are partially to blame as well. I personally believe my parent did an excellent job raising me. I also feel my friends and sorority sisters all are excellent human beings with high morals and high values. Just because things might be different from when you were 20-30, doesn't automatically mean that they are bad or wrong, it just means things are different.

I didn't raise the girls in this chapter, so I definitely have no blame for their behaviour and I'm proud of my daughter and the brave stand that she has taken to stop the sadistic behaviour by this particular group of girls.

[This message has been edited by carol c (edited October 28, 2000).]

Carol, according to you, society are going to hell. Well, tell you what, we are not. We are not worse or better of then your generation or the previous generations. It's just a paradigm shift. The problem just shifted and we have a more open society. Every problem we encountered now due exist back then. It's just that there was a tendency to sweep it under the rug and pretend nothing happen. AIDS has always been aproblem. It was just given a name in the 80s. Drug problem, if you read some of Queen Elizabeth material, she will hint on her sniffing of "powder." But now, we realized that it's a problem and tackling head on. So society hasn't change, it is now able to admit to its problem and tackle it heads on. Though some politicians will say otherwise.

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“If you know anyone who got high on industrial hemp, tell the National Science Foundation and you’ll get a prize for the most unlikely scientific discovery ever. George Bush’s father was saved by a parachute made of industrial hemp."
-Ralph Nader

Excuse my grammar. I'm in the middle of analyzing the Singapore stock market right now.

One thing that I think is important is direct advice, such as "Don't leave your drink unattended at a party". There is a risk of rohypnol ("roofies" aka "The Date Rape" Drug) or other drugs being put in there, without the person's knowledge. Also, I know of some sororities that make sure that if there are a few girl hanging around at the end of parties (any kind of parties, not necessarily fraternity parties), the sorority girls get the girls to come with them, so that the girls are not left isolated and alone (which is often the setting for date rape, gang rape, etc.).

I have taken some very empowering self-defense courses from a group called "Model Mugging", and I would recommend these courses to ANY and EVERY woman.

Okay...colleges, fraternities, and sororities DO NOT teach values. That is not the point of these groups. Instead, we work to reflect the values that everyone is supposed to have. It has nothing to do with Risk Management or Hazing.

I like the things on birth control and sexual decision-making. I'm a counselor for first-years, and sex is usually such a big issue for them. Those issues are very important for college women to be aware of.

I think something important is to be SURE that ALL chapters of ALL sororities are following their DD policies. Our chapter would have between 3-5 DD's for every party--I don't know if it follows chapter or national policy--No girl could GO to the party unless she was transported by a sorority DD, and no girl could LEAVE the party without being tansported by sorority DD (she couldn't leave with anyone else except a DD). DD's had to take turns at least one or two DD's remained at all times (depending on number of girls attending, that way there was ALWAYS a means for someone to get away if something should happen. We watched out for each other, that is important. What we have to realize, is that not ALL sororities follow their DD policies as they should. This is one of the most basic/essential risk management policies to follow, and everyone should be following it.

Don't worry, Alpha Phi won't be banned and neither will anyone else.

Alpha Phi called the first Panhellenic Council meeting-I wouldn't imagine that they would be banned, unless the whole system goes kaput. But, every organization is on the line, right now-including Alpha Phi.

The postings on the website are very informative, on both sides. But, it is nice to see the statistics from some real research that shows exactly what is going on. That is the only way that there will be any REAL improvement in the hazing and risk management issue, at all, is if people quit shooting from the hip, with their remarks, here, and start looking at some real facts-and make some real contributions to solutions.

Then I suggest that each group police itself. The worst thing that could happen would be for clueless people ( who really think that every fraternity and sorority is like those in Animal House) to go storming around and try to ban all Greeks. We all know that Greeks do much more good than harm and we don't deserve the reputation that a few people have given us.

I hate generalizations. I hate hearing "all Americans are violent", "all Southerners are rednecks", and "all Greeks are drunks, hazers, and ho's". I belong to all those groups, yet none of the generalizations fit me. I believe that to rid campuses of all Greeks would be "throwing the baby out with the bath", so to speak.

As a researcher, I know not to believe every study that comes down the pike. One got released last week by a major university that said parents feed their adopted kids much less than they feed their biological kids. @#!!!

Therefore, I suggest that we Greeks pay attention to what we do, especially in public, and those of us who are alums should pass our help down to the actives. We should strive to show the world how much good we achieve--maybe through formation of a group like Pnguintrax suggested.

But never, ever should we tolerate interference from outside sources.

"These private organizations should be grateful that they have been allowed to participate on campus with power not afforded by every student. These organizations have abused the system and are now falling apart from the inside out. These groups have violated and abused not only their own codes and policies, but the standards set by the institutions they represent."

I want to know how a reporter knows we are falling apart from the inside? How could they? They aren't permitted in meetings, rituals. They couldn't have that sort of information. That is pure hearsay and assumption.

"Now that they are in trouble, fraternities want the people that they neglect and shun helping them. Will banning fraternities stop the hazing, over consumption of alcohol, date rape, and discrimination on college campuses? While fraternities are experiencing a decline in their members, they are being challenged by national officers wanting to change their recruitment practices, and college administrators who want to ban the Greek society."

Ok, If anyone actually bought that line of BS, I'd be surprised. The greek system is HARDLY suffering, and so what if their nationals want to change recruitment practices--they would lose THEIR jobs if they tried to keep us from growing. It definatly wouldn't be in their best intrest. College administrators have wanted to ban greeks for years, it's no different than 20 years ago. And to even imply that getting rid of the greek system would "stop the hazing, over consumption of alcohol, date rape, and discrimination on college campuses" is assinine!

"Hazing is the power and control that the brothers use over new pledges. There have been forty-five deaths in the past ten years from hazing incidents. The hazing and alcohol problems are affecting the quality of fraternity life. Research shows that eighty-six percent of fraternity members living in chapter houses are more likely to engage in binge drinking, and that forty-one percent of fraternity house residents agreed with the statement, "drinking is important" (Harvard of Public Health, 1993)."

I love the scare tactics. . .as if EVERY fraternity in the country hazes. It's lumping the entire greek system together. Ya know, we could have a field day with the american government and drafting. while over 10 years 45 students have been killed by hazing, it's ok that during war, the government can force an 18 year old boy to go into battle and take the chance of dying. Yes, 45 over 10 years sucks, and I'm not trying to justify those deaths, but worse things happen in this world and blaming fraternities--and trying to percieve them as evil has no merit with me. Also, define binge drinking. How many drinks do you have to have to meet the standard of binge drinking. Could a college party be considered binge drinking? Well duh! If they live in the house, they are more likely to to attend the parties that go on there AND, I'm sure if you have college boys, living in a house together, not in a fraternity, you will find that THEY TOO will more likely to be a part of binge drinking, not 'just because', but because their appartment or house will be used for parties rather than the dorms.

"However, trying to change the practices of the Greek society could take years and the only way to get immediate results would be to ban them from campus. These Greek members have a "them" versus "us" mentality. College administrations need to make the changes and replace the Greek system with other organizations that have the same benefits or higher standards. For these Greek organizations to remain on campus, they need to direct a large scale strategy to change their ways of recruitment or be removed from campus."

This story is so one sided, to imply that hazing is something that all greek systems do is totally unrealistic. If you even suggested that college sports be done away with because hazing occurs, you better believe that the schools, fans, and media would be defensive. And hazing DOES occur in college sports, even high school sport, even professional sports. It occurs in the military, should we disban them too? Come on and be realistic. In this artical the author implied indirectly that fraternities are the cause of date rape, binge drinking, alcohol abuse, hazing, and discrimination on college campuses. He/she says we have a "them vs us" mentality. . .well with his/her closing statement, he sure sounds like HE/SHE is the one with the 'them vs us' mentality. He suggest that we should be banned and that we need higher standards. Because we don't meet THEIR standards, we should be banned? Sounds like discrimination against greeks to me!

On a more personal note, I'd also like to point out that the greek system isn't perfect, and I'm not going to argue that it is, however, nothing is. Not the government, not the school system, not the military, not a THING. This author made the greek system out to be nothing but a load of boys out getting sloshed every night, making poor grades, not contributing to society. He never made any refrence to what greeks DO, what their purpose was, nothing. This artical was written for one reason only, to persuade the public that fraternities and sororities are bad. I want to see an unbias view of greeks, not this garbage.

Another thing to consider...

The universities could not handle the financial devistation if GLO's dissapeared. I can only speak for Lambda Chi Alpha, but the cost to replace Lambda Chi Alpha's housing stock at all the universities across america and canada would be about $200 million - (Lambda Chi Alpha's Annual Report 2000.) Add in the other 65 NIC member fraternities, the 28 NPC sororities, the 9 NPHC Orgs, and all the locals around the nation and it soon becomes obvious that the relationship between universities and GLO's is a symbiotic one. They need us and we need them. That fact will never change. I do agree that some GLO's could stand to change behavior, but many are already undergoing this change. I.E. the Values 2000 (I think that is what it is called)campaign, that was started in '96 working to have all greek housing become substance free. I know the Sigma Nu's and Phi Delta Theta have MANDATED that their housing bee alcohol free by this Fall. So there are groups making progress in this arena.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Arya:
[B]Carol, according to you, society are going to hell. Well, tell you what, we are not. We are not worse or better of then your generation or the previous generations. It's just a paradigm shift. The problem just shifted and we have a more open society.

In doing some research, I found this, quite interesting post to the Higher Education Chronicle, I've seen the statistics in the newspapers, before, here it is, but first let me say that I don't want my sorority banned, but from the attitudes posted here, I am afraid there isn't much hope for improvement in attitudes, because of the "influx" of a certain kind of person after the Vietnam war-and now their legacies are showing up(after the huge influx of Animal House "type" people:
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Do we need to save college fraternities? They exist on most campuses and are part of university heritages. Substance abuse and behavioral misconduct are as much a part of fraternities as fraternities are part of universities, so why should they be extended extra courtesies not witnessed by the common student?

These private organizations should be grateful that they have been allowed to participate on campus with power not afforded by every student. These organizations have abused the system and are now falling apart from the inside out. These groups have violated and abused not only their own codes and policies, but the standards set by the institutions they represent.

Now that they are in trouble, fraternities want the people that they neglect and shun helping them. Will banning fraternities stop the hazing, over consumption of alcohol, date rape, and discrimination on college campuses? While fraternities are experiencing a decline in their members, they are being challenged by national officers wanting to change their recruitment practices, and college administrators who want to ban the Greek society.

Almost everyone agrees the main problem facing fraternity is hazing and alcohol abuse.

Hazing is the power and control that the brothers use over new pledges. There have been forty-five deaths in the past ten years from hazing incidents. The hazing and alcohol problems are affecting the quality of fraternity life. Research shows that eighty-six percent of fraternity members living in chapter houses are more likely to engage in binge drinking, and that forty-one percent of fraternity house residents agreed with the statement, "drinking is important" (Harvard of Public Health, 1993).

While hazing, pledging, and rush pertains to fraternity life, it seems that the whole Greek system is negatively affecting the quality of campus life. A study of self-reported cheating found that fraternity members engage in more cheating than do nonmembers (McCabe and Bowers, 1996). The CORE data (1991) reports earlier and greater first use of alcohol and marijuana in Greek houses. Fifty-six percent of fraternity members are more likely to become involved in arguments or fights while drinking, and fifty-two percent of fraternity members are more likely to drive under the influence of alcohol (NBC Nightly News Study, December 1994).

One study found that being in a fraternity during the first year of college has a negative impact on student's cognitive development and a negative effect on individual's critical thinking ability (Pascarella, Whitt, Ternzini, Hagedorn, Edison, Nora, Cognitive Effects of Greek Affiliation During the First Year of College, 1995).

However, trying to change the practices of the Greek society could take years and the only way to get immediate results would be to ban them from campus. These Greek members have a "them" versus "us" mentality. College administrations need to make the changes and replace the Greek system with other organizations that have the same benefits or higher standards. For these Greek organizations to remain on campus, they need to direct a large scale strategy to change their ways of recruitment or be removed from campus.


[This message has been edited by Elaine_74 (edited November 06, 2000).]

To add to your point, lifesaver... approximately 80% of the money that alumni donate to their college/univeristy comes from greek alumni (I don't recall the original source of this information, but I have come across it more than once).

And where are all of the statistics about greeks in Fortune 500 companies and politics, or about how greeks, on average, have higher GPA's than GDI's?


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SilverTurtle@greekchat.com

Phi Beta Fraternity
Phi chapter