Back to the point, I think Harry was way out of line with his remarks towards Colin Powell. Colin Powell is an established leader with a great track record. I agree with AggieSig's comment on willingness to die for our country. It's easy to talk S**T when your not the one in the line of fire. Ask Harry to do the kind of things Colin Powell has done and let's see how things would turn out.

I think that what ktsnake was trying to say about Belafonte is also how i feel about vocal celebrites such as Jane Fonda(back in the day), Barbra Streisand(however the hell you spell that) Alec Baldwin, et. al.

Just because you can sing well, or act well, or play a sport well does NOT make you a leader of society. Volunteer work, government service, military service, acts of personal sacrifice, these are things that i think make someone a leader of society. Did belafonte participate in sit-ins? marches? etc. during the Civil Rights movement? If so, then yes, i respect him for what he's done. I may not agree with his statements, but i will respect them.

But when you have people like Stresand and Baldwin pop up in election years, to give us their 2 cents, pardon me while i gag. Has either of these people spent years studing political policy? do they have years of experience in actual physical volunteering(and not just lending their famous name to a cause)

I"m sorry, but every time one of these people speak out, i can't help but laugh. Wasn't it Baldwin that said if Bush won he was going to Canada? why the hell isn't he there now. To me, that's the statement of an 8 year old who can't have their way so they pout. Yeah, i didn't vote for Bill Clinton, but i'm not going to leave my country to show my displeasure.

In closing, Belafonte was way out of line, celebs like stresand and baldwin do NOT need to be encouraged that we care what they say, don't get my started on Hanoi Jane, and Light 'em Up W!!

Kitso
KS 361 American flags i had before Sept 11, and will continue to have no matter whom our president is.

Took the words right out of my mouth....
we need more men like you in America...lol

I never said I care about what these celebs have to say - I just feel that everyone's opinion on this country's foreign policy actions should count equally. We all pay taxes, what we do with Iraq effects all of us in some way economically or otherwise. I'm also a really big fan of the Ist Amendment :D

I never said that they shouldn't be allowed to say what they want. Say it all, but that doesn't mean that every news carrier has to play it, and your average Joe or Jane Celeb-Lover needs to be like, oh, well, Babs said that war is bad, so i'm going to agree with her.

I'm sorry, but if you base your political ideology on what 'cool' celebs are in a party, i think you should have your right to vote revoked.

I vote how i vote, because of feelings i have on issues, not becuase Bruce Willis or Arnold Schwarzanegger(sp) votes that way.

DeltaSig- It must be a Texas thing :D

Kitso
KS 361 times i shake my head everytime 'Babs' opens her mouth.

I'm sorry but I not only disagree with what you have posted, but would also like to inform you that you are in very shady area in terms of the facts you provide.

UN Resolutions in terms of Israel: If you honestly feel like you know about this matter, start a new thread. However, make sure you research your facts and don't just post BS lies because I will pick them apart one by one. In terms of the facts you listed, you are wrong about the UN already. To actually read about the UN resolutions, distinguish between the different types of reolutions the UN passes, and to learn why the Arabs even REJECTED the resolutions please read an article by the Economist http://www.economist.com/world/na/di...ry_id=1378577. The Economist, a British publication, is pretty critical of Israel just so you know. The UN resolutions (Type 7) passed in regards to Iraq are incredibly different from the ones passed in regards to Israel.

You are also incredibly wrong about why America supports Israel, creation of Israel (Zionist History), and the present climate in the region. In fact most of what you said is garbage propaghanda with twisted facts thrown into it. Do you honestly feel that you are ready to discuss this topic if you barely know anything about it?? Do you know anything about Israel's nuclear program that you commented on it? Do you think that America simply allows Israel to have this program?

You make comments about Palestinians killed yet you neglect to mention that 53% of those killed include combatants (suicide murderers) as opposed to 22% from the Israelis, that the number of Israeli women killed is twice as high as Palestinian women, that the number of Israelis over 40 killed is 50% higher than the same Palestinian cohort, that the percentage of children killed among Israelis is higher than among Palestinians even though more Palestinians have died overall.

Now it's funny that you can even compare the War on Iraq to Wag the Dog when even Hillary Clinton said this was not the case. The case has been made pretty well for the War. If you read a previous thread on the Iraq war (http://greekchat.com/gcforums/showth...highlight=iraq) there is already a great deal discussed. I think that those that oppose the war are generally very ill-informed but I'm waiting to see what you have to say to start "informing" you

-Rudey
--Greekchat, providing that much needed break from school work.

Well thank God that we have Rudey here to always correct everyone (read: impose his beliefs on whoever opposes him) and lo and behold, SCHOOL US (read: turn every debate into a competition).

I just hate the self-righteous tone with which you continually post. Also the fact that anyone who disagrees MUST be intellectually flawed, and in need of the oh-so-important teachings of Sir Rudey.

This post, as have others before it, gets a hearty

:rolleyes:

I correct people when they say something wrong. I don't turn anything into a competition, but you seem to have a problem with me ever since I corrected you on basic WWII history. Yes I am bringing that up again.

There is a big difference between holding an opinion and putting out wrong facts. However, why don't you go back to claiming that the US attacked Japan first and impose your close-minded liberal beliefs on me. I don't have a desire to get into a flaming war with you.

-Rudey
--Oh So Important Sir Rudey

Rudey...I am not hung up on any WWII threads. You stated your opinion, I stated mine. You had more historical facts, I accepted your argument. Let us throw a parade.

Your very first sentence is so telling. Do you not understand that people can distort and twist stats and facts to fit their own agenda? Just because Rudey thinks it is correct, does NOT make it empirical evidence, get it? It works BOTH ways, which is why I backed down from the WWII argument.

And my problem is NOT with you stating "facts," it is the competitve overtones in every post, not to mention your self-righteousness...for the second time, because in your fervor to pat yourself on the back, you must've missed it when I first posted it.

I am not imposing anything liberal or closeminded on anyone. I am just letting you know that your facts and your opinions might be better received if you weren't such an a$$hole about it.

Before you criticize read that Economist article. I read it earlier today and was going to come in and post the link. There's plenty of propaganda on both sides of the thing but really I'm all for sticking up for Israel.

I read the article. I am not even talking about this debate, so much as the debate STYLE. And I am not sayign anyone is wrong either. I am a little peeved at the way he argues. End.

Rudey - I'll get back to you on what you said.

Until then - check out these sites:

www.electronicintifada.net
www.partnersforpeace.org

Read through them, you just might be enlightened.

As a valid media source I can count on the electronic intifada for only 1 side of something. Definitely one-sided spin on the Palestinian side of the issue.

If I'm going to have to chose between it and The Economist for unbiased reporting I don't think the choice would be that hard.

I've already been "enlightened" and not by sources like that although I do check them over every so often to get a glimpse at how certain people think. The reason why I posted the Economist article is because it DIRECTLY discussed how Israel and Iraq differ in regards to the UN.

Librasoul, I love you.

-Rudey
--Love is such a strong word though

Rudey, this has been bugging me, but I never asked it. Do you have an English accent? Because how you type I can see it sounding that way in real life.
-I mean a sophicated English Accent.
--Not Cockney