h2oot,

There is a tendancy in some of your posts to disparage women that are comfortable enough with their bodies, sexuality, and their freedom of sexual choice to engage in casual sex.

Casual sex seems to be generally defined as sex that takes place in the absence of a long term committed relationship.

I was just wondering if you would clarify your position a bit.

Do you think pre-marital (casual) sex is morally or ethically wrong?

Do you not approve of people that engage in pre-marital (casual) sex?

Or is it something else entirely?

I apologize in advance if I am misunderstanding your position.

When you say "pre-marital (casual) sex" you seem to equate the two. They are not the same. While I'm not opposed to pre-marital sex, I don't and probably wouldn't participate in casual sex. It's not for me.

With regard to "one nighters", I haven't met many ladies who advocate them. Even those who have had one, weren't exactly proud of themselves afterward. This is not just a moral thing, but an emotional one as well. It's about self-respect.

So you are saying that if a person has a "One nighter", that person does not have any self respect?

If I were you I would think before you respond, many people on this board have "One nighters" before.

Hell yeah for one-nighters :) But alas, my first one during my first semester at college turned out wrong..me and my now bf hooked up one night after being completely wasted...and we've been together for over 10 months now..*shrugs*
I say, try a one-nighter ever so often, it may turn out to better than what you think..lol

As I said, most of those I know who had a one-nighter, weren't proud of it. And for those who weren't proud, it's not just a moral issue, but an emotional one as well. For them it's a matter of self-respect.

If you think its cool to brag about out banging some drunk blonde sorority chick named Tiff then there isn't much I can say that you wouldn't disagree with. I should have stuck with my first response to your post: BARF! ... and let it go at that.

Yes, it could be better than what someone thinks or worse. Yea, what a surprise when you get an std or pregnant. The risk is always there and I'd be hella more cautious with people that I do not know anything about. And when it comes to shagging, I'm sorry but I'm not really into the one night stand thing. Don't want to take the chance of getting something and having my wang fall off a few months later, or possibly having a soon-to-be younger version of me running around. After all, protection is NEVER 100% safe. That's not to mention if you are "down" with the lower-region to mouth communications!

Why would someone feel 'cheap' or lose 'self-respect' after a one-night stand?

Chances are, this would only occur if the person looked for more out of the hookup than what it was. Also likely would be fear of being labelled a 'slut', which is a strong fear for most women.

It would seem to me that damasa's reasons make sense for him, to my mind, and maybe I can even see where h2oot is coming from (well, maybe) - the difference is, blaine is saying what he feels and why he does what he does, while h2oot appears to be making a value judgement on someone else based upon her particular feelings - please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just trying to interpret "Barf".

Either way - I'm curious to know: why is there no way that a person (specifically, you) could be attracted to someone in a purely sexual way, and simply desire sexual gratification from them, for one night?

It seems to me that enjoyment of the moment could be attained, if one could get past any hang-ups surrounding sexuality (assuming safety issues are addressed, etc) - but that's a male point of view. What am I not seeing here? ie what's the other point of view?

-RC
--PS - damasa, bad pun buddy - I loved it

KS_RC, cuz I'm attracted to somebody sexually doesn't mean I'll go have a one-nighter with them. I want a relationship before I have sex. And, this is not just a value judgement, like I've said about 3 times before, it's also an emotional one.

BTW, I said BARF in refernce to this dude thinking it's cool to have sex with some gal who's so drunk she passes out on him, to which he interprets as a state of rapture.

Hon, that's a TOTAL guy response! I mean, yeah, of course, guy's don't mind one night stands... they get to brag about it to all their friends afterwards (just like the Pike's just demonstrated). But, to girls, it's forbidden. It's one of those things that, even if a girl only has ONE one-night stand, she's looked down upon as a "slut." And I hate, hate, HATE when guys get girls drunk on PURPOSE to have her sleep with them.

I honestly don't see anything wrong with casual sex... for people who agree both ways that they want it. It's not something that I want to go around just doing, like it's nothing, but if you want to, that's your business. I've only been in love once, and we didn't have sex. Not because we were both virgins, waiting until marriage, but because we loved each other so much that sex wasn't one of our top priorities... stuff like getting to know each other, meeting each other's parents, and going out on actual dates were. I think if we hadn't broken up when we did, eventually we would have had sex, but we just had so many things that we wanted to do, first.

Call me a hopeless romantic, but I don't want the next time I have sex to be this drunken f***, rather a great experience with someone that I really care about, who I know will call me the next day, and who I know everything will be all right afterwards.

Here's my other thing:
I really don't want to sound like I have a big head or anything, but I AM good-looking. I go into bars, and I turn heads. So many people get mad at me because I don't have a boyfriend (and complain about not having a boyfriend), yet I have offers all of the time. But, this isn't necessarily a good thing. I get hit on... a LOT. I was set up to my formal with a Catholic virgin because I told people that for once I wanted a date who wasn't gonna pull the whole "I want you bad, baby" lines. My semi-formal date told a bunch of the guys who went with us that he WAS going to hook up with me by the end of the night. I get sick of being treated like crap. And, honestly, do guys think they're gonna get ANYWHERE by hanging out of a car window and yelling at me? Please!!

I've had guy friends (non-greeks) tell me that I need to just stop dating fraternity guys. Unfortunately, fraternity guys are very much my type. I love croakie- and Reef-wearing, beer out of koozi-drinking, long, dark-haired guys. And I love the guys who go for me: A girl who shows up to Carolina Cup or a football game in my tube dress and J. Crew sunglasses, but can kick butt on a tug-of-rope team or building houses for Habitat for Humanity and raising money for the blind.

I swear, I'm not a prude by any means. I go out, have drinks, and date a lot. But I also have high standards. And, to me, high standards isn't sleeping with the first guy who gets me drunk in a bar. The thing is, anyone can get a girl drunk and sleep with her, but it takes a real man to get a woman into bed by using his personality, looks, and charm.

I feel like I did something wrong now by buying a girl shots and ending up having "Casual Sex" with her. It's not like I go around banggin a different chick everytime I go out or preying on the women at bars. I too believe in having a girlfriend. I'd much rather have a girlfriend over being single and having my little board of late night booty calls ( Which I still have hanging on my wall as though it is a trophy). The thing with girlfriends is, the emotional side of them keeps getting in the way. My reaction to their emotional state depends on how long I've been with them. If I 've been dating a girl for a LONG time, then I care very much for her. This is why it is so hard when a breakup occurs. If it's a girl I've been dating for a matter of weeks or a month, I have a tendency to either never call them again and block their numbers or tell them I can't deal with their shit, so get the Fu** out! Believe me, the last thing I want is an STD or a little UF_Pike running around. Luckily I don't have any STDs nor a little UF_Pike. I do have one theory about girlfriends though. If you date a girl for a LONG time, I think they take safety precaution measures to ensure them coming out on top in case of a break up. Now every male knows that if you date a girl for a long time, you are going to have sex like 4 or 5 times a day and your not going to use 4 or 5 condoms. So what happens? The girl gets on the pill! In the mans mind he's thinking "ahhhh, the pleasure of never having to pull out" . Well He never pulls out and after a year or two they break up. This is the most detrimental moment in a young males life. He just dated this girl for a year or so and never had to use a condom. So what happens the next time he has sex? He can't get off!!!!!! At first he thinks it's because he's not over his ex-but eventually he realizes its the condom. I think females do that sh*t on purpose so that when or if they break up, the male cannot have sex with another girl and enjoy it without taking a huge risk by not wearing a rubber. Eventually it gets to the point where the male knows he's not going to "reach the ultimate reason for sex" but still has it just to feel like a man. This leads to an even worse situation. When this happens, the question soon arises, " whats wrong?" " want to try a different position?", which is followed by the males response, " No, it's just me". This often leads to an ending of the sex and leaves an awkward feeling of dissatisfaction from both parties involved. So what happenes? They don't have sex for awhile and the girl ( if she's smart ) ends up getting on the pill and surprises the guy one night. The whole process starts all over again as the guy beings to think, "aahhh, no condom"!


CarolinaDG----"I've only been in love once, and we didn't have sex. Not because we were both virgins, waiting until marriage, but because we loved each other so much that sex wasn't one of our top priorities... stuff like getting to know each other, meeting each other's parents, and going out on actual dates were."

Babe, I'm going to tell you something your older sisters should have told you long ago. NO COLLEGE GUY DOES NOT HAVE SEX IN THE MIND! The things is babe, you think that it wasn't one of his priorities because he never made an advancement on you. If you look as good as you say you do, then no guy would not want to have sex with you. He obviously didn't feel that you wanted to and probably never brought it up, I'm assuming he was going to leave it up to you. I've read your post on your ex, who you loved. I saw that the two fo you didn't date long nor saw each other that day in and day out. Please don't take this the wrong way, but don't you think the reason he stopped dating a girl that was hot and went to a different school could stem from the fact that she didn't have sex? You have to understand, males are in their sexual prime in their "college years", thus making their hormones active and increasing their sexual drive. Women don't hit this till their late 20's and early 30's, it usally lasts for 7-12 years. YES, he wanted to meet your parents and YES, he wanted to go on dates but you are not thinking rationally if you deny the statement that sex was on his list of "To do ASAP". I would advise you go and talk to some older sisters in your chapter. Look for girls that are 22 or 23, if they are still around. If you have any questions they are the ones you need to speak with, they have been around for sometime and more than likely have been through any situation you can go through with a guy, thats what their there for!

As for the comment, "Call me a hopeless romantic, but I don't want the next time I have sex to be this drunken f***, rather a great experience with someone that I really care about, who I know will call me the next day, and who I know everything will be all right afterwards."

That is good sweety. At the same time though, you have to understand, there are three different types of sex! There is the sex for the mind, sex for the body and sex for the heart! Sex for the mind is the drunken sex. Sex for the body is the sex you have when you come back from classes all day long or work and your back is aching , as well as your shoulders and neck. This sex normally releases all tension in your bbody and is a good remedy for stress. Then there is Sex for the heart. This is the so called "Love making" that many women enjoy most. They enjoy it mainly because they are women and are full of emotions.Often times they base their descions on how they feel rather than facts, this is most noted when you see a guy who is a dic* to his girlfriend but she still stays with him because she loves him while denying the statements her girls make as "He such a dic* to you" and the like. Most men enjoy the excitement and fast paced sex that is often associated with drunken sex. This is where the personalities collide and bad shit starts happeneing. Anyhow, I hope I clarified things up with up.

As far as dating greeks----- I KNOW what you MEAN! While I will be one to admit I am cocky as well as stuck on myslef to a certain degree, we both agree on dating greeks. I'm a sucker for blonde greek women, mainly ones from a *certain* sorority. I think the reason for it is because most men in my family went PIKE and most of the women in my family went DG. Year after year leading up to my college years I was always told, " Look for these girls, they are the best." By the time I came to college I was shocked to find out most of them are HOT and are from S-Florida just as me. I thought it was even more crazy when i actually joined my chapter, only to find out most of the girls we hung out with were in that *certain* sorority. So you see, I'm a sucker for life. Oh and I did my fair share of community service at the volunteer Fire Department.

I too have very high standards. I'm about as picky as they get.If you would have seen this girl, she would have given many, many, many girls a run for their money. She was INSANELY HOT! I could also tell she wasn't some dirty little slut. I know she had bunch of things all piling up on her at once. Thats why she went out that night.This is why I kinda felt bad about the whole incident with her and how our relationship ended. I would rather us just be friends and hang out rather than be enemies. Most women are won by my personality, looks and charm. I'm not that type of person to keep a girl drunk everynight so that she's comfortable with me.


As for h200t-----------*BARF* on you too o' permiscuious one!

First off, to answer the real question, most times the second go round isn't as good as the first, because it's one thing to have a hook up. That's one night...but to try it again, it's just well...too weird! It's not hooking up then...I can't explain it, but it's just not the same.

Secondly, and I don't speak for all women here, but I've had my few one nighters, and I'm not going to trade them in :) Women are just as sexual and primal as men, and if a woman tells you she's not, then she's either a) not in touch with herself or b) lying out her ass!

To h2oot, I guess not everyone is looking for a relationship in life! Some folks just enjoy a bit of good clean fun :) If it's not your cup of tea, great, but don't judge others because they do it! I'd much rather sow the wild oats and then settle down then only have had "relationship" sex and then realize that there's so many fish in the sea!

To UF_Pike, I guess I appreciate your honesty in your post, but I'd like to take a poll of your one night board and see their thoughts! ;) And not every girl is an emotional freak show...some of us go out and have one nighters, just like guys, and end up with some psycho guy calling us all the time wanting to go out!! Don't kid yourself that guys don't get all emotionally attached, because I can give you a couple numbers of ones that do!

To James, you're a dwarf, and dwarves do not do one nighters!! :D

Yeah, that's a little fucked up - that strays into an area known as "rape" - but i see this side of it for girls, and actually it sucks for them b/c it's such an intense double standard. Anyway -

I agree with most everything you put up here - I'm very similar, and I'd say most people imagine themselves to be as well, in terms of dating desires etc.

Don't get me wrong, though - I wasn't pushing a pro-sex agenda here, or saying that everyone should just get bombed and hook up like it's an hourly job. However, as dumb as that concept might seem, it seems equally retarded (to my mind) to totally preclude as a possibility the idea of a purely physical experience.

Now, if that's outside of what someone's looking for right now, that's great - but that doesn't mean that we should immediately discredit the concept as ridiculous.

Now, that said - don't think I'm a dirtbag if I buy ya a drink, I promise I'm not just getting you drunk (most likely, I'm getting me drunk).

-RC

Boy did this board heat up! I'm not going to take a popular position, but that's OK.

Women may think all things are equal whre sex is concerned, but it isn't. Yes, there are people on this board who will say it is, but this is a minute sampling of men and women. I don't think GC is a true reflection of attitudes across the nation. There are still men who will consider women "damaged" goods if THEY aren't the first.

Ladies, there is a touch of hypocracy here. Many actives refer to this behavior as grounds to "cut" girls from recruitment. Maybe it's not the opinion of anyone who has posted, but it's the attitude of your SISTERS!

Animals copulate, reproduce and with a few exceptions, move on.
Humans forge relationships & bonds which are enhanced through intimacy. Yes sex is great, wonderful a release-no one is saying it isn't. It's also something that should hold more meaning than a slam bam... Do you think that things were so different 20 years ago that I don't know what you are feeling? That I too didn't hear-things have changed?

There is a very old saying-As go women, so goes the world.
May I boldly say-Men and womens' lib have done one heck of a con job on females. It really does matter, you just haven't had the bad exerience YET to learn this. I really hope you never do...learn the hard way that is.

OK-who's going to pick every single sentence apart? It's an opinion, and one that will never change as I'm not open minded about this. Just felt the debate was slightly lop sided.

CarolinaDG and some of you ladies in general,

Actually there are guys that for various reasons are not into one night stands . . . although a lot that say they are not into them . . . don't really seem to have the option anyway . . . I'll have to think about that.

Having sex with a girl that is unconscious from alcohol (or anything else) is rape, and sounds about as much fun as having sex with a corpse. Although I can remember a couple ladies that seemed to think that not moving very much during sex-play was endearing . . . but I digress.

Giving a girl drinks for sex, or a hook-up or just a fun night is not actually a bad thing per se, its more an understanding of the social role of drinking.

When we studied drinking from a psychological and anthropological perspective we discovered some strange things.

Alcohol and many drugs allow changes in our social behavior that is not consistent with the effects of the drug on our bodies.

Alcohol is essentially a central nervous system depressant. Go drink at night in a darkened room with no TV or other stimulation and you will find yourself rapidly getting tired. Which is another reason that people that are not heavily into the social outlet of alcohol will often just get tired at parties.

However, socially we are taught to act differently when we drink. And the amount we drink allows greater leeway in our behavior. How many of our friends have said: I was soo drunk or else I would never have done that?

And in reality its very rare that we are so drunk we have no idea what we are doing. That is usually at the point we are passing out. Also, most people that are denying memory of an event are lying. You have to be on the verge of blanking out not to remember something and even then you should have flashes.

Anthropologically, alcohol and other drugs allow a social safety valve where we can engage in less accepted bahaviors and have a handy excuse. Flashing people in the quad at noon gives you a bad reputation. Flashing someone while drunk at a party gives you a never ending invitation to other parties. Then we can deny remembering it later and all our friends can laugh about it and let it go.

In other cultures other behaviors become acceptable . . . in one culture a certain amount of violence is acceptable. So the scientist there was treated toa drunk tribesman chasing the other tribespeople down the path with a machete . .. when the machete wielding inebriant came across the scared scientist he actually gave him a lot of room and nodded courteously!

You see, in that culture, it was permissable to chase the other villagers with a machete while drunk, but not acceptable to attack the white scientist . . .

There are reams of other studies out there. . .

SO! Many times when people are feeding each other drinks its in an attempt to free up as much fun-but-socially-frowned-on-behavior as possible versus any sinister plot.

Oh, so much to say, so little room to say it in!!!!

First off, I PM'd you, little Pikey boy. But I figured I needed to put up another response so everyone knows how I feel.

OK, now to make my points:
1. You keep telling me to go talk to my older sisters (by the way, I'm 20 and a JUNIOR... it's not exactly an 18-year-old freshman you're talking to). The thing is, it looks to me as if you need to go to a couple of your older BROTHERS... *NEWS FLASH* Women are emotional!!!! We get PMS monthly! We cry at sad movies! If this is something that you still don't understand and still obviously can't deal with, then maybe you need to find a man to sleep with. Otherwise, quit complaining!

2. I am Oh-so-sorry that I've made you feel guilty about bragging about having sex with a woman who was so drunk she passed out. I'm sorry. Maybe I should congratulate you. Woo hoo. You are such a real man now! Please, if you don't see what's wrong with this picture, you need some SERIOUS help.

3. Yup. You head the nail on the head. My boyfriend broke up with me because I wasn't sleeping with him. You're right! Woo hoo for you again. Of course, I always thought that maybe, just MAYBE it was because we were totally wrong for each other, and towards the end of our relationship couldn't get through a single conversation without fighting. Silly me. You're right. YOU know more about my relationship than I do. You win the prize.

4. Maybe the "certain" sorority that you keep talking about isn't MY chapter, but you're still talking about my sisters, sweetie. And I know that you mean that they are gorgeous, intelligent, wonderful women (which, of course they are, they're Delta Gammas!) but you're treating them like prizes. Quit it. I don't appreciate you talking about my SISTERS that way, I don't care if I've met them or not! Would you like me to talk about the Pikes? Oh great one, who got upset because Pikes weren't mentioned in the favorite fraternities thread? Didn't think so.

Anyway, I'm done for now. Read your PM box.