shultzz: 33 took the words right out of my mouth...

I have been in a local....anyone listening. And I know both sides, but when the general public thinks sorority, they probably think NPC. They are widely known b/c they have chapters all over the nation and some in other countries. So, yes a local has potential to send bad PR our way and yes it can go the other way around, but when you have such a large NPC system that is what peolpe associate with sorority.

When I went to school I didn't know the difference and the average person doesn't know either. But NPC groups are all under similiar guidlines and standards, so it is difficult to be judged by a local's behavior b/c it isn't under the same governing...

We ran into the same thing on campus, we didn't have policies in place for drinking and no risk managment policies and it is hard when we are not all on the same playing feild.

It's not bashing...it's the truth. When we were local we were very aware of the differences and loved that about us, we never thought it was us against them and complained about it. We dealt with it and decided to move and become national b/c we saw the advatage...that's not the case for all and I understand that but we don't all have to be the same to get along.

you are right
 

You are absolutely right, but that only supports my point. If the majority of the problems, are caused by nationals then how can someone make a comment, "locals are making nationals look bad"?

Who is making who look bad? The group with less than 10% of the total, that is causing less than 10% of the problems or the group with over 90% that is causing over 90% of the problems?


I am being very generous when I attribute 10% of the problems to locals. Over the past few months I haven't seen ANY major violations by locals listed on fraternal news groups. I probably missed something but the groups that are making you look bad are the national fraternities, period.

Alfred student found dead.
Wake Forrest U. fraternity and animal abuse
Michigan State fraternity suspended over hate crime
Auburn fraternity and racism
Oregon State student falls from fraternity
U of Washington student dies after fall at fraternity
Syracuse U fraternity brawl leaves student in coma
Syracuse U fraternity brawl # 2
U of Michigan greek fround dead in fraternity house
U of Miami pledge dies
U of Md pledge found dead at fraternity.
SDSU. 3 pledges die
U of Minnesota student raped at fraternity.

These incidents all involved national fraternities.

Dont even try blaming locals for making you look bad. Locals aren't angels, but nationals make locals look bad far more often than locals make nationals look bad.

Re: you are right
 

The fact that there is a larger number of problems being caused by national groups as opposed to local groups is because there are more national groups than locals. It's a proportional difference. That's not to say that national groups are worse than local groups.

You've made posts before that suggest you are anti-national GLO. I don't know why you feel this way, but I really wish that you would think about things as overall Greek issues instead of local vs. national issues. The main thing that we should all keep in mind is that there are ALWAYS going to be some irresponsible people out there that make the rest of us look bad. Whether they are local or national isn't the point because the effect is the same regardless of their affiliation.

Well by saying that because we make up 90% of the population of Greek Life is and therefore are the cause of 90% of the problems might just have some truth.

That of course is a VERY disproportionate way of looking at it. If 1% of the population causes 10% of the problems you just MIGHT have an issue with that 1%.

(not that I've seen anything to even suggest that I'm just pointing out that the previous argument doesn't hold much water)

If we go with the assumption that 1% of the population is causing 10% of the problems, then 90 % of the problems and bad PR are still caused by nationals and for anyone to imply that locals are making nationals look bad is crazy.

There is also a possibility that the 10% of the population(locals) are causing only 1% of the problems.

Re: Re: you are right
 

I didnt say I was anit-national. I didnt start this thread. I was just responding to the individuals that were blaming their problems on locals, even though most of the bad PR is actually generated by nationals...

Shultzz, you're not seeing the whole story here.

Look at it this way.

If there are 100 locals and 10 of them start a problem, then 10% of the locals have created a problem.

If there are 1000 nationals and 100 of them start a problem, then 10% of the nationals have created a problem.

The number is the same.

You're missing the point shultzz is trying to make here (which is actually valid) . . . Let's say:

10% of locals create problems, resulting in 10 problems (your math here). 10% of nationals create problems, resulting in 100 problems.

By your own math, there's TEN TIMES more problems for the national houses - and what shultzz is saying is that if 90% of all problems are created by nationals, maybe the blame for negative image should rest primarily on those creating the largest NUMBER (not percentage) of problems. Regardless of if these are proportional or not, the inferrence is that the majority of the blame for negative image can be tagged to the people making the majority of mistakes.

What shultzz is saying, I think, that blaming locals for making greeks look bad is sort of like blaming green M&Ms for making candy look bad - I think that's seeing another side of the story, rather than missing the whole story, dzrose.

I disagree. The percentage is the same but the number of problems and bad PR is NOT the same. I think the "100" problems caused by nationals is larger than the "10" caused by locals.

Using your own numbers , how have the locals given you a bad rep any more than you have given them a bad rep? The nationals have caused hell of a lot more bad PR than the locals.

Eternal words of wisdom...
 

From my stats professor herself --

"Figures don't lie, but liars can figure..."

This thread is making my head hurt.

I think what shultzz is trying to say is not against the statisitics - of course nationals will cause more probs than nationals, simply because there are more of them - but that a lot of people right away assumed (for example) when a local was picked for the MTV project "Oh my God, a local with no rules or regs, they will make us all look bad!" and that those people would have not automatically assumed that if a national was picked.

I am against that completely and there are people on here who did it.

But as far as incidents in the media, unless you have a clue about the Greek world, ANY bad incident makes ALL Greeks look bad.

KAY and IFQ are the only 2 NPHC organizations with membership in the IFC.

First of all, I've never said that locals have given nationals "a bad rep".

All I'm saying is this: when you have a large group of people compared to a small group of people, then you're going to naturally have more problems from the larger group as a result. That doesn't mean that there are more troublemakers percentage-wise in the national groups compared to the local groups. It simply means that there is more of an opportunity for problems to occur due to their sheer size.

Just like a town of 2,000 people is going to have a smaller crime rate than a city of 20,000 people. It doesn't mean the town is any better than the city. It just means that there's less room for error.

That's fine... I'm all for blaming the people who are making the mistakes for their actions. All 110 of them in the theoretical case that I presented.

But shultzz is pointing the finger squarely at national GLO members and blaming us for the majority of bad PR. Well, if you go with shultzz's view, then you also have to remember that with those 100 nationals who cause problems there are also 900 nationals who didn't. That's a lot of innocent people to point your finger at.

You also have to keep in mind that the sheer size of nationals allows them to do more positive things than locals. So, it all weighs out evenly in the end. Local and national orgs have good points and bad points, but they're all equal when it comes to Greek Life.

Once again, at the risk of sounding like a broken record: the issue is NOT local vs. national. It's stupidity vs. responsibility. There are plenty of immature people acting the fool in Greekdom, local and national alike. So instead of acting like one group is better than another, why don't we work together and see about making things better?

Re: you are right
 

Whoa! what U of Michigan Greek was found dead in a fraternity house????? This had to of happened years (more than 5 actually more then that) ago, because when I was on campus there was NEVER a greek found dead in a fraternity house.