The last 2 posts say it all. If SAI, for example, were a member of Panhellenic and bound by our rush rules--and if women couldn't join another GLO besides SAI, then social Greek members would be more likely to consider them "truly Greek". As people have noted here, many hold dual membership in both social GLOs and SAI.

I really doubt that any social Greek would go up to an SAI, though, and taunt them with "Nah, nah, you're not really Greek." It wouldn't occur to me to bring that up and I've only answered it here because we were asked!

I think the "are we really Greek" will get different reactions from different people, depending on what they consider "really Greek." If you asked Joe Blow on the street what a Greek organization is, he'd probably say a group of men or women that live together in a house and have selective membership policies. Just by that definition APO is disqualified since we do not have "official" houses. We also do not have selective membership (but you do have to complete the requirements of the pledge program to initiate).

I honestly have closer bonds with my ASA sisters than my APO brothers, but there are APO brothers from my chapter who lived together (as I did w/ my sisters) and are every bit as close to each other.

ASA started out somewhat like SAI, as a social-educational sorority. We eventually came to the conclusion that what we did was practically identical to what the purely social sororities did and joined NPC. I believe AXO started out musically based. Who knows, maybe 100 years from now if SAI has lots of chapters that are leaning more toward what NPC does, they will do the same thing.

I put NPC, NIC and NPHC groups in the same category (since "social" seems to be a dirty word anymore) since they are all groups where one has to be invited to join on intangible merits (other than just grades). Maybe not the most PC way to put it but it's the only thing that fits.

Re: Re: non-social GLO's
 

Excellent point! :)

interesting
 

You and the Baird's Manual. I wish there was a word we could use to call NPC, IFC, NPHC, and non-umbrella-ed organizations similar to those.

I'll stop there because I don't want to get into another debate about the definition of "social fraternities" and the NPHC. PM me with questions.

Re: interesting
 

I don't see why we need to find a particular word or phrase to refer to these organizations. I say refer to them as GLOs---but then, people have different definitions of what a GLO is (hence the current thread).

There's no debate associated with the definition of "social fraternities" and the NPHC.

Re: Re: interesting
 

Chaos, here comes a PM.

non-social GLO's
 

i don't talk down non-social GLOs, because they don't really do anything as organizations with our socials, here at least. we'd be like a machine if the business, honor, and service GLOs worked more with social. we share a lot of the same member base.

by the way, FarmHouse letters, "F" and "H", aren't Greek and not EVERYBODY looks down on us. :p

Re: interesting
 

For someone who is NOT A MEMBER of an NPHC group to tell members of NPHC groups that we are not service organizations is pretty damn bold. To say, in essence, that we don't know what our own purposes & missions are, is flat out INSULTING. If you PERSONALLY don't think we're service organizations, you're entitled to that OPINION but realize that your opinion is not fact.


Getting back to the topic @ hand, I do consider members of groups like KKPsi, TBS, APO, GSS, Phi Mu Alpha, etc. greek, but not in the same vein as NPHC, NPC or IFC groups for many of the same reasons Delta_theta stated. Like Delta_theta, I do not look down on them (or anyone) based on their membership choice nor do I try to disuade members of those orgs from calling themselves greek if they choose to.

Re: Re: interesting
 

"I wish there was a word we could use to call NPC, IFC, NPHC, and non-umbrella-ed organizations similar to those. "

I apologize if you felt insulted by a proposition for a term that connects those said organizations. That is all I meant by my post, nothing more. For clarification, I was referring to a term that could unify those organizations that are selective, that "one has to be invited to join on intangible merits" as 33girl said, and that forbid membership in other like organizations, whether social or service oriented in nature, or a mixture of the two.

Obviously, the term "social" is not palatable to some members of NPHC organizations, and "service" also has a different connotation.

Again, the statements "social" and "service" are only meant to categorize those organizations on the criteria that I mentioned above, not my personal opinion on whether you are service organizations or not.

Re: Re: Re: interesting
 

Actually, that's not what I'm offended by. I'm recalling your comments and the comments of other APOs in the "Dual Membership" thread and considered the part of your reply that I quoted a reference to that. Forgive me if it wasn't.

Social is not palatable because that's not what we are. In all honesty, we're a blend of all types of GLOs: service, social, professional, and academic because of the circumstances surrounding our foundings. By the way, what connotation does "service" have? For that matter, what connotation does "social" have? And how accurate are we in continuing to classify organizations in this manner?

Re: Re: non-social GLO's
 

This is becoming an issue for many people, including me, in non-social GLO's. We often (not always!) have people from social GLO's who join our GLO's, run for EC positions, sometimes win them, yet they are non-committed. They put their social GLO before us, which is fine I understand, but they ALWAYS do it. Also, they often segregate themselves within our chapter. Stuff like that prevent chapters from progressing.

What is the hidden agenda? Application fillers?

And, again this does not pertain to all, however the number who do is too large.

I can imagine it is hard for others to understand how people like me are in multiple organizations. Sometimes, there are circumstances involved that you don't know about. For instance, I pledged APO my freshman year. Spring of the next year, I started at the school where I graduated (yesterday...you may congratulate me :) ) and rushed and joined a social sorority (DZ). I met some of the APO member at my new university and did not click with them at all, so I did not affiliate, although I am still behind the national org. Fast forward to last year when I was asked to help bring SAI back to our school. It had gone inactive years before and all of those people were long gone, so there was an interest in restarting. I helped get the chapter back on its feet. My experience in both DZ and APO was much needed and appreciated when it came to re-establishing SAI on my campus.

I am devoted to each organization I join. As I said in an earlier post, the benefits I get from each organization are different, although they do have some small similarities. I know it may look strange for people to see so many letters by my name, but I feel that I exemplify those letters to the fullest.

Re: Re: Re: Re: interesting
 

I just realized that there is indeed a term that I am looking for. It is called "General Fraternities." This is the term used in the Baird's Manual of American College Fraternities. It includes NPC, NPHC, IFC, and any organization with those same criteria that i mentioned before.

I haven't seen a copy of Baird's recently because it is out of print so the term wasn't as fresh in my mind as it should have been.

I apologize for any previous misunderstandings and I will say "General Fraternity or Sorority" from now on when I mean IFC, NPC, and NPHC collectively, along with similar organizations without an umbrella.

Also for your information, the categories of organizations in Baird's are General, Professional (Music, Business, etc.), Recognition (APO, GSS), and Honor Societies. "Social" and "Service" are not used.

Re: Re: Re: interesting
 

Thanks, buddy, I hope you received mine...look forward to the dialogue :)

Re: Re: Re: non-social GLO's
 

I can completely understand how this would be an issue for your chapter and possibly other chapters/organizations. In dealing with dual memberships, the "more important" membership (which would be personal opinion) is going to get priority. Therefore, you may have someone who holds key roles in both an organization within the NPC and APO (for example). Sometimes, one role, or the other, will not get attention.

To be honest with you, depending on the university, the organizations that do not fall within the IFC, NPC, and the NPHC are not taken seriously. They often have to FIGHT for acknowledgement and respect. So, if you want to be seen in the same light as, say Delta Gamma or Delta Sigma Theta, the dual membership issue would have to be resolved.

For many, membership in a band fraternity is the equivalent of membership in a glee club. Again, that depends, because I see some campuses (particularly HBCUs) where Kappa Kappa Psi (band fraternity) membership is no joke! I was in a pre-law and criminal justice fraternity. That membership was on my resume, but not anywhere in my heart...I knew nothing about the crest (which was public knowledge). It was another club membership. I'd laugh if someone came to me who took such a pre-law or criminal justice fraternity membership seriously and as if it were an actual GLO. That's my $19.13, though.