SilverTurtle,

I wouldn't place too much stock in what Consul_2k claims to know. I have two reasons for making this assertion:

1. Back in 1979 there was a doctoral dissertation written about fraternity rituals. I bought a copy of it while I was Pledge Educator of my chapter in order to try to better explain ritual without discussing ours. The student, Bobby McMinn, wrote to all 67 national and international fraternities and asked for copies of their ritual books to anonymously compare their content. Of those 67, 22 ACTUALLY sent him their book if you can believe that. He never states which fraternities did it, nor do I have any idea, but he does say the following: "Twenty fraternities do not print in their ritual manuals the meaning of their mottoes or passwords. Those devices are transmitted orally to the neophyte. (p. 121)" This strongly suggests that if 20/22 fraternities don't print some of their secrets, then probably almost all of the 67 fraternities follow the same pattern. This forces me to conclude that whatever Consul_2k may THINK he knows, it's probably not correct.

2. The title of Consul, as far as I know, is associated only with Sigma Chi. At least I've never heard of any other fraternity using that title in place of president, but I could very well be wrong in this. We have a chapter of Sigma Chi at my school and there are other chapters in the area as well. I'm certainly not going to make generalizations about the entire fraternity; I do have good friends who are Sigs. What does trouble me, though, is that the overwhelming majority of all Sigma Chis I've ever met have been arrogant and assumed themselves and their fraternity to be better than everyone else. From the mouth of a Sig himself, I was told that Sigma Chi pledges are taught that since their badge is the "white cross of sigma chi," that it is more glorious and meaningful than any insignia any other fraternity may adopt because of "him of whom our badge reminds us." Just because Sigma Chi is the only fraternity with a cross-shaped badge does not make them the only fraternity with ideals of that calibre. Between this tendency for many (NOT ALL!) people to let statements like this get to their heads and the obvious bias of any Greek to the ritual of their own glo over another, I'm not a bit surprised that Consul_2k thinks "some [are] just logically better."

Someone open a window before it gets REALLY warm in here.

Don't worry, I'm not placing any real value in his statements...I'm just not sure what it had to do with anything in this thread in the first place. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif I also just realized that he posted in November of 2000.. had I noticed that before, I wouldn't have even posted anything!

I really wasn't trying to start any flame wars, and I'm still not trying to do that.

There have been lots of studies on rituals, and you'll find that most of them are actually quite similar (since most have the same or similar roots).

As for the Sigma Chi's... I've only known a few, but none of those have acted any better than anyone else, or said anything along the lines you posted. You can't generalize an entire fraterntiy based on your personal experience at one campus. (If that were the case, my opinion of SAE would be horrible, based on one story a friend told me years ago. Instead, I met some SAE's, have seen their purpose (on web pages, etc.) and have as much respect for them as any other GLO).

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SilverTurtle

Phi Beta Fraternity: National Professional Association for the Creative & Performing Arts

[This message has been edited by SilverTurtle (edited June 06, 2001).]

sorry, its been a while since i've been to this page and I didn't notice what attention i've recieved from SAEactive and Silverturtle. First off, No, As a gentleman I will not reveal any ritualalistic material of those 2 fraternities. Secondly, Consul is used by my Fraternity (Sigma Chi). It is also used by at least 2 other orgs, check your chaapters list of NIC orgs it will tell you. As for my credibility and your so called knowledge of what I know......your wrong. I have both rituals and ritualistic paraphenalia with me, as a matter of fact i'm thumbing thorugh it right now. but thats irrelevent. As a the past prez of my sig chapter, we do not tell our pledges were better, they make that decision themselves, just like you do with your org. My interactions with SAE is what we call "rocky" I can't stand a shit load of the ones on my campus. NOT ALL, i don't know them all, on the other hand, I actually like some. sorry if I made any hasty generalizations on any certain org. But when you read the garbage that a suposed "TOP NATIONAL FRATERNITY" prints for the greatest night in a members life...........you laugh too! by the way one of the orgs that i have in my possesion rhymes with BIKE. so repectively, have a coke.......a smile.....and shut the F**k up.

i thought the question was what are the largest fraternity and sorority?? can we get some accurate answers?

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Delta Alpha
Spring 94
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Imaginer un métro rempli avec les anges tombés...

Evil knows where evil sleeps~~Nigerian Proverb

The top 3 Sororities and Fraternities on Long Beach Campus is Delta Zeta, Tri Deltas, and Gamma Phi Betas. Also Phi Tau, Sigma Pi, and Kappa Sigma. All the fraternities and sororities on long beach campus are cool, some interact more with others, and get there names out, others are still trying to get established, but for the most part they all have their good points. Of course Phi Kappa Tau is #1 http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif

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The Power of one
The Force of Many
HOO RAH!!

i've been told that nationwide, the largest according to number of chapters, is sigma chi and that nationally the only fraternity to grow in membership numbers is sigma phi epsilon and so it is the largest nationwide. this would justify it going from 2nd nationally in '97, according to Lil_G's post, to first in the nation now.

For who ever asked about sororities- Chi Omega has the largest membership of any women's organization outside the Girl Scouts in the US (maybe world, I forget!) Anyway, they have the largest membership of any sorority (NPHC or NPC).
Sarah

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"...and love her for her womanhood."

in terms of membership, according to the NIC (National Interfraternity Council), Sigma Alpha Epsilon (SAE) has the highest total, which is 246,632 members. Sigma Chi is right behind SAE. just from word of mouth i heard SAE is probably the "strongest" in terms of nationals, they have a great insurance program and would be the last national fraternity to go dry. they also have the biggest scholarship endowment offered to undergrads. their leadership school is second to none and it seems that in most places (not everywhere) that SAE is a strong chapter.

PHI ALPHA! SAE was the first national fraternity to establish a leadership school (1935) and everyone else has copied the idea since. We also have more insurance coverage than anyone. Period. Sigma Alpha Epsilon will always be the strongest fraternity because we have more members, more and stronger alumni and a bigger insurance umbrella than anyone else. Nothing will ever tear us down!

It all depends on what you think the best insurance is. SAE is strong, but they are also dying at a few schools here in Cali. Plus, they have adopted a program they will be initiating soon that is 4 year devel. program adopted from SigEp... every greek organization "copies"... and it's not really copying. All GLOs are essentially working together to improve the Greek System... sometimes even more so then fixing their own chapters.

This is an excellent point - Many, many aspects of greek life aren't inordinately "original", right up to the very use of greek letters etc. (from Phi Beta Kappa). It's difficult to quantify insurance claims, how 'strong' an alumni base may be, or which development program is stronger - the true test is how it worked for each individual member. So with that, I'd say for me my fraternity is the 'strongest', as i'd hope all of you would as well - that's what matters, not who came up with the first coat of arms or whatnot. of course, that's just my opinion. . .

Not pertaining to any org, but dont think that for A SECOND if a chapter broke the rules and someone was injured or hurt that any of our inter/national orgs wouldnt turn tail and run from the local chapter. They have to protect the whole and would run screaming away from the offending chapter. (LXA at Rutgers-1988) Also, read your chapters insurance policy, any violations and I mean ANY of the policy and your chapters cheeze is left in the wind. This even goes for my org. I have seen them do it. I have seen others do it. So while the inter/national org would survive, dont think for a second you'd still be welcome around the inter/national campfire. Just a word so everyone doesnt think insurance makes any of us at the local level untouchable. Remember in the world of fraternity insurance, no one is more important than the whole.

Not pertaining to any org, but dont think that for A SECOND if a chapter broke the rules and someone was injured or hurt that any of our inter/national orgs wouldnt turn tail and run from the local chapter. They have to protect the whole and would run screaming away from the offending chapter. (LXA at Rutgers-1988) Also, read your chapters insurance policy, any violations and I mean ANY of the policy and your chapters cheeze is left in the wind. This even goes for my org. I have seen them do it. I have seen others do it. So while the inter/national org would survive, dont think for a second you'd still be welcome around the inter/national campfire. Just a word so everyone doesnt think insurance makes any of us at the local level untouchable. Remember in the world of fraternity insurance, no one is more important than the whole.

If this posts twice, its cause the browsers at school SUCK!

Future Frat kid, Honestly by the # of men annitiated Sig Ep is the biggest. But in the last 4yrs no one has compared to the # of people SAE has been annitiating, and yes TKE has the largets # of Chapters. I am a TKE as you can tell by my username, I would recommend going TKE, cause it has meant alot to me and I have gained a good many friends out of it. Not! for the same stupid reasons young men end up going in to Fraternities, ie..cause girls tell them too, or because they think this ones the best because they win everything, or because a relative told them they had too to carry on tradition. Thats moronic, you should go into a frat because you like the people, cause they are your friends, because they wont turn there back on you.......Yes it feels good winning, we have been lately, but I am just as tight with my Fraters as I was when we where losing, and thats what counts, I can tell you we are big nationally, and we do win the trophies but thats just peices of paper and painted plastic......Having your friends be there for you when you need them thats what counts...................