Isn't the clothing color and skin color more of an undertone of skin kind of thing, as in cool coloring vs. warm coloring. I've known fair people with blue undertones in their skin and people who are as equally fair but with yellow undertones to their skin. (My best friend and I come to mind. Both pale as the dead, but I'm cool and she's warm. We do not look good in the same colors.) I think the cool/warm thing goes tracks along skin colors from fair to dark. While I don't think there's anything wrong with someone asserting that a color isn't good for an individual, people who claim that only people of a certain race can carry off X color are just dumb asses.

LOL! I have to laugh about some of the side conversations Latinos have had in my presence assuming that I didn't understand what they were saying. I speak Spanish fluently, and back in my salad days when I was young and frisky, I would often overhear comments Spanish-speaking young men were making about me when out and about. I lived in a neighborhood with a largish Spanish-speaking population. Anyway, I would chose my moment, turn toward them, and fire back at them in Spanish. The looks on their faces were priceless! We all would then burst out laughing. No harm, no foul!

When we go to our Mexican restaurant here, I always speak to them in Spanish, which is very well received. The manager always comes out from the back where he works to greet us, always with a warm smile and hearty welcome.

I just love Latinos -the generic term- and IMO that I like and respect them comes across to them. I am about as WASP as you can get. But those would-be barriers have never interfered with having a good relationship with them.

I do the same thing at work. I'm an apartment manager, and I get a guilty thrill out of not mentioning I speak spanish to people conversing amongst themselves until they're about to leave, when I respond to something they're discussing.

Side note, my husband does not speak spanish and I find that I'm kind of judgmental when he says gracias or the like in the scenario of #2 from the OP's post.

^^ this, right here.

White people love to make me "sistah gurrrrl".

I love interacting with Afro-Latinas(os). Sometimes they are speaking Spanish (or other) dialects and then they see me, a fellow person of the immediate African diaspora, and the Spanish (or other) dialects often switch to familiar Black dialects (which are formally recognized by many linguists and aren't the same as "sistah gurrrrrrl" mockery). That is the awesomeness of varying conscious (double consciousness, triple consciousness, etc).

I'm always fascinated to see my black friends surrounded by their black friends. Who knew they were bilingual! I have never been one to put on the "sistah gurrrrrl" thing because I can only assume I would look like a poseur or worse, just stupid.

On a similar note, did anyone see Blackish last night? I think it will probably be funny but, like so many sitcoms, the first couple episodes are just background so it was only minimally funny. But I'm glad to see Lawrence Fishburne back in the game!

Here's another "racist/prejudice or not scenario".

All day meetings are being planned at work. The admin in charge of ordering food responds to an email to call out if certain attendees need vegetarian meals. All the names are Indian.


Cut to a few weeks later, different all day meetings with different admins coordinating. (Also, this set is East coast as opposed to the first set is West coast.) We break for lunch. It's all meat filled sandwiches. Zero veggie options. About 10% of the attendees are vegetarian and most of them are Indian. The next two days have vegetarian options after it was brought to the organizer's attention.

It should be noted I work for a company in the healthcare industry. Healthy meals are actually required by the company, but "healthy" and vegetarian aren't always hand in hand.

My initial reaction to both of these situations is this:

1. If this is honestly the way they are choosing models, I don't see how that is racist. I could see this same thing happening for large models (vertical vs. horizontal stripes), makeup for particular eye colors to make them pop, etc. This is not an issue exclusive to race.

2. I don't think this is racist as you HEARD them speaking in Spanish. Had they not heard them speaking in Spanish and were basing on appearances, that is a different question.

Overall, I think racism is the action form of racial prejudices. You can have no malicious intent and still have automatic negative race related thoughts. My $0.02.

Personally, I think our society is out of control with expecting "free" lunches/snacks/etc to meet each person's individual dietary needs. If you can't have meat/dairy/gluten/fiber or whatever and you aren't aware in advance of the menu, it is up to you to inquire in advance or bring food you can eat. It is next to impossible to find anything to serve a group of people that will work for everybody present. As a person with extreme dietary restrictions, I bring my own backup food if I'm not sure what is being served. I would never consider making a big deal of the fact that the entree is a luncheon salad and I can't eat vegetables.

My mom was a vegetarian before it was cool and she always had a sandwich in her purse "just in case". The world does not have to cater to everybody.

That said- I think the first situation sounds like prejudice if you're saying the admin only asked those with Indian names whether they needed vegetarian food. Statistically, the Indians were more likely to be vegetarians, but I definitely know plenty of Caucasians who are vegetarian.

The second situation simply sounds like they feel like I do! If you have a special need, bring it to someone's attention. Don't assume people can read your mind.

Oh...this is an "is this racist" thread. Okay...

My coworkers and I thought in the first scenario the admin was at best just trying to be courteous and at worst prejudice. Would have been best if she'd ask everyone if there were any dietary restrictions.

In the second scenario, nobody made a huge deal of it. The coordinators were informed so arrangements could be made for the rest of the meetings. I just pulled the meat off while others ran out to the onsite cafeteria. We don't have a cafeteria in my office so that option hadn't occurred to me. I'm so used to big meetings (30+) always having vegetarian options that I was floored by the lack of options really. I learned quickly to save fruit and other options from breakfast because the lunch offerings were ultimately fairly gross.


eta: I recall, at a previous job, one of my supervisors loved to reward the team with lunches. He would order ribs, peperoni pizza, cheesesteak sandwiches, etc. Always so much meat. Never mind that half the team were known vegetarians. I was constantly reminding him to pick out alternative options.

Racist or nah? :p

I've met so many people who are annoying (and demanding) about their dietary restrictions that I've lost count.

Last Memorial Day weekend, my boyfriend and I were visiting one of his friends in Dallas. Another one of his friends and his girlfriend (we'll call them Matt and Sarah) were planning to stop by for a cookout. And what do people generally do at Memorial Day cookouts? They eat meat and drink alcohol. What doesn't Sarah do? Eat meat and drink alcohol. Ok, no big deal.

My boyfriend was on the phone with Matt prior to them coming over, and he said, "By the way, we know Sarah doesn't eat meet, and we have a couple veggie burgers in the fridge here, so if she wants those, she can have them." Matt and Sarah arrive… with nothing but a 6-pack of beer in hand. Sarah immediately starts complaining because the only thing that we have to drink is beer and whatever can be found in the fridge (maybe some orange juice?). She finally pours herself a glass of water. Then she asks if she can see the veggie burgers she'll be eating. As she's reading the back of the box, she starts rambling on and on about how she can only eat specific types of veggie burgers that don't contain a certain ingredient.

Seriously??? Why didn't you just bring what you wanted to eat?! It's not like you thought you were showing up to a salad and soda party, and you were surprised when there were only burgers and booze! You knew where you were going and what to expect. The hosts of the party were nice enough to offer you their veggie burgers, which they were probably planning to eat for dinner one night that week, and then you complain and say that you can't eat just ANY type of veggie burger? Ugh.

I assumed yes and no. I do not always get "Hi" from a cashier. I have it happen sometimes that the cashier is talking in a foreign language to someone else in the store while ringing me up, doesn't say a word to me. If that's the situation and you know that it's Spanish then I don't see a "Gracias" as more than saying thank you.

If a cashier clearly speaks English or you try to guess the language, I have issues.

If I had Indians at lunch, I wouldn't have the faintest clue what they eat or don't eat. It's not my job to know the food preferences of every ethnic group and religion on the planet. I simply don't give a rat's ass. I would most likely have a meatless option just because there are MANY reasons people don't eat meat. Someone I worked with thought I was a vegetarian. No, not in the least, I just 1) don't want to order a steak at lunch and 2) don't want to choke down the dried out tasteless chicken breast that's in oh so very many of the lunch options at the places we ate most often. I'd rather eat no meat than bleah meat.

To ask only a certain ethnic group what they want is not only racist, it's ignorant to the rest of the attendees who don't get a choice. This is pretty much the definition of the "what happens when we assume" phrase.