My pledge class was quite small. We were of four guys. But then, the next semester, we got 28, then 35. Quite weird. I think size does matter. Once we were able to triple our number, our rush was a whole lot easier. We were more active on campus and intramurals. More recognizable. We also had more money. And the alumni all of the sudden came out of the forest to give us support. So I think quanity is as important as quality. Kinda like figuring out what is more important, a college degree or experience. You need both to succeed.

I agree with all of this. A lot of people argue that bigger is not necessarily better. This may be true as far as internal matters are concerned: you don’t get to know all of the guys as well, the brotherhood may not be as tight or close-knit, etc. However, I think it depends on the person. If you are in a 100-member house and you really take the time to get to know everyone well, then you can do it. But externally speaking—social, campus involvement, intramurals, recognition among other houses in the Greek system—bigger is definitely better.

Another point concerning quality and quantity: You can get quality out of quantity, but not the other way around. Meaning if you pledge 20 “average” guys, your house can mold them into 20 solid, hard-working brothers. But if you pledge only 10 guys, even if they are all rock-solid, it’s still only 10 guys, and you can’t get 20 guys out of that. Do the math. Another argument for quantity.

My chapter’s goal was just to get as many pledges as possible, because we were a small house and couldn’t survive otherwise. We couldn’t plan on just getting the 20 best guys who walked through our door, because we didn’t have the same rush numbers that a lot of houses have. Basically, if someone had a good attitude, got along with our guys during rush, and seemed to be willing to work hard for the house, we would give them a bid. We would end up with a pledge class of diverse, solid future brothers, but we would lack the size to really make an impact on campus.

I guess what I’m trying to ask is how different houses of different sizes determine how many pledges they want to get in a given semester. I am interested in finding out if houses try to balance a semester of “quantity” with a semester of “quality,” or if the goal is to always get 30 pledges no matter what, etc. Do houses ever set a goal of “we want to be the biggest fraternity on campus” and then go out and get as many pledges as they can, to achieve that goal? Do they fluctuate based on how many seniors graduated last year or how many will be graduating next year? Does a house that already has 90 members really need a pledge class of 35, when a class of 20-25 is more than enough? Or do they pledge 35 guys with the knowledge that only 20-25 of them will make it to initiation?

Just an FYI...At Howard,where I pledged and was the Dean of a line of 19, the Zetas have purposely kept their lines small...It's never been a lack of interest. If you take a look at the early yearbooks of Howard you will see, for MANY years, the numbers issue was about the same. The bottom line is we have a personal interest in the ladies we bring in. Our tactics with respect to membership are very consistent with what we want from a International perspective.

Therefore, we do not bring in MASS quantity.
We would rather not deal with the drama plagued by aka or delta that they time and time again face in their headquarters adding on additional women and infighting. It's not a diss...but simply not an issue,we would like to deal with in the name of Sisterhood. And further, I hate to say it, but I would be embarrassed to wear the number 125 on my back. My friend(who's organization I will not mention) forgot her linesister's name. OUCH! I love her to death...but eww, YOUR LINESISTER'S NAME? No thanks. That's not cool.

And please don't get me wrong, I know she is a die-hard member (and on that line of 128) and WORKS her butt off. I am proud of her and love her to death!

I must also say this issue of numbers is VERY regional in nature. For example, in NY...Brooklyn...Long Island U anyone will tell you the Sigma Gamma Rho's CONSISTANTLY outnumber all NPHC 4 organizations. Does it matter? No. Does it mean there is less interest in the other organizations? Not necessarily. However, what it might indicate is the priority is different chapter to chapter with respect to whether bonding or numbers is important.

In closing, I know women will bond on line...while in school even. But what are the life long effects. We say this is a LIFE LONG COMMITTMENT. Does one really stay in touch with 60 linesisters?


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Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Incorporated...Every Woman's Dream!

[This message has been edited by Finer Woman10-A-91 (edited May 24, 2000).]

I attended a tiny little private school (under 2000 students including the handful of MBA candidates and MSN candidates there).

Plegeclasses for all of the GLO's ranged anywhere from 3 to around 35 in any given semester I was there ('95-'99). From memory, the smallest GLO had around 14 members and the biggest about 60 at their respective extremes. The BGLO's were (are) actually city-wide chapters, and I can't speak for their line numbers. (I do know that the chapters consisted of members from several small private (and predominately white) colleges in the vicinity, so I don't imagine they were huge. But I could always be wrong http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif).

My pledgeclass had 18.. a pretty good number. We got active and I think everyone contributed a lot. But there were times when it felt like there were some sisters and brothers that I just didn't know like I felt I should, given that they were my pledgeclass. Also, it made pledge activites hard to schedule (most of our members had evening rehearsals and the like, all class/school commitments).

When I had the privelage of training 2 different pledgeclasses (one each semester), they had 8 members and then 7 members. While the numbers were small, the members were (and are) incredibly rad. All worked together amazingly well and I could see the bonds that they were forming. And even though scheduling was still an issue, my last pledgeclass asked to have more stuff scheduled so they could spend more time together as a class and with the actives. (Talk about an impressive class!)

"alumnus who cares" made a pretty valid point on quantity vs. quality. While I would choose quality, it's definately preferable to be able to blend the 2!

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SilverTurtle@greekchat.com
Phi Beta Fraternity
Phi chapter

Finer Woman, again i agree there should be a cap, how to determine that fairly is another issue. However again knowing how it is at Howard and other Black Schools i've never seen your sorority have this problem so i don't see how you can really speak on it since it really doesn't seem to be an issue for Zeta.

Have you ever had over a hundred, two hundred, qualified women at your Rush seriously speaking and had to deal with this issue (I have). I think it is sad for line sisters to forget each other's names but 200 girls will not remember even that, all you will have is cliques within the group, but that happens on a line of 10, and even smaller lines know each others names, life history etc. but can not begin to show sisterly love twards one another, now that is sad too.

Sisterhood is something you have to work at no matter the number, if more women want to be your sister then you just have to work that much harder at bonding, I'm not saying Zeta doesn't have interested women but they do not and never have attracted as large of a following at Howard as do Delta or AKA (that's just a fact and i've seen the year books.)

Anyway after you graduate no one really cares, its all about the business, no one cares how long your line was or if you can remember all their names if you are not financial. In joining a sorority the sisterhood is not limited just to your undergraduate line sorors who many times disperse all across the nation after graduation. Older sorors told me and i have seen it to be true that our sister hood is life long and is has no boundries it only begins with undergrad.

Most of my line are all over the country and as much as i love each one of them, i would not trade my grad chapter sorors or sorors i've met in my area for anything in the world because our sisterhood has matured and goes beyond the yard at Howard, FAMU, Spellman, etc. it is world wide. So for those on larger lines then you would prefer, enjoy it and appreciate all those extra hands that help build that chapter, because in grad chapter you may find yourself wishing you had more sorors to help out.

hope this didn't offend you Finer Woman i do see your point. Its just easier to say what you will do then to do it if you've never done it.

[This message has been edited by PositivelyAKA (edited May 24, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by PositivelyAKA (edited May 24, 2000).]

I am a proud member of Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc., and I pledged at Grambling State University where over 400 women attended the rush. 82 women were accepted into the sisterhood, but I don't feel ashamed because my line was much larger than the other GLO's on campus. Yes, it is hard to keep in touch with all of them, but we love each other and we share a special bond that will always keep us together. I agree with PositivelyAKA, more people come to the Delta and AKA rushes, for whatever reason, so naturally our lines are going to be larger.

FinerWoman: OHHH I LOVE YOUR STYLE!!!! TELL IT GIRL!!!!!
As far as the number, I think it also has to do with the difference in process- True that AKAs and DELTA lines are going to be larger if the interest is more but... the problem i find with this is that sometimes youmight not give the time and attention to each interest in order to find out if she is AKA,DELTA, ZETA, or SGRho material. I amnot talking about pre-pledging, I amtalking about someone coming to you saying " I want to become member" and youdon't get to interview her and take the time to she if that is the kind of person she wants. It sure is a matter of where you live. I know of chapter that brought lines of 5 last semester and 8 this semester. THE INTEREST IS OFF THE HOOK-, yet, sorors do not put everyone who come to the informational.
AS I KEEP SAYING, TO EACH ITS OWN, But I would not like to have a triple digit as my number.

No offense taken at all. However you are SADLY mistaken in stating the level of interests in Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Incorporated at Howard has never rivaled aka or delta.

I invite you to review ANY official Howard University periodical or annual from the Moorland Springarn room in the Main Library of Howard University. I worked on the yearbook staff for 3 of my 4 years as a student there and promise you will see for yourself that what I have stated is FACTUAL.

If you really do some serious research on Greek letter organizations at Howard in particular, you will see for a FACT that the Zetas did indeed rival in numbers the other Sororities from it's inception well into the 1950's. After that time period there was a major shift in the culture of membership and Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Incorporated respectively.

http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/cool.gif But don't be suprised, you will not find many projects specific to Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Incorporated in the archives as you will other organizations,simply because Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Incorporated chose not to give her archives to the research institution as did many other BGLOs. (When the interests at Howard are encouraged to research...they research). Been there...and did it. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif

In stating that, the culture of Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Incorporated, on college campuses systematically changed in its focus away from the numbers and more on the bond of Sisterhood. This was further demonstrated by Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Incorporated being the first to expand and charter in Africa in 1948. The notion was... Sororal living did and should move beyond our scope of locality and particularly that of the African diaspora.

Contemporarily, sorority life in general has evolved dramatically. From the 1960's-1980's (and 90's for some http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif )the focus on pledging at Howard further cast the iron between those who were worthy and those who were not. A long tradition of pledging hard quite frankly and purposely scared many away, especially since my Fraternity brothers were notorious for participating in the pledge process.

To further expound on the idea of a rush of 200-300 girls. Will that ever happen again at Howard U or any other chapter in Zetadom? By design, probably not. We make it a point to weed them out waaaaaaaaay before it comes to that. It eliminates confusion, anxiety, cliques, law suits, dramatic A and B lines, and suspensions.

FYI, Alpha chapter Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Incorporated has NEVER been suspended.

As for the organizations that do have the practice of large rushes, more power to you. I know for my aka friend from the line of 128, she said she was happy with crossing in her weekend MIP. She said it was more in line with her virtues and idea of sorority life. She also enjoyed the rush of 300. Its a concept that works for some, but not for others. She's my girl! What ever makes her happy.

On the issue of keeping in touch with all of your linesisters/and knowing them, I must disagree with you. My bond with my linesisters are UNLIKE any. Yes, it's true, the time you spend in undergrad is short compared to the time you spend in grad. Hey, I have been out of undergrad for 8 years. I too, am currently active in a graduate chapter http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif. And yes, I love ALL of my Sorors that I have met across the world and I would not trade them for the anything, but the bond I have with my linesisters can NEVER be replaced. My introduction will always be the most special. It was the time when Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Incorporated first touched my heart. Without that moment, my membership of 9 years plus would not exist.

Interestingly enough it was YOUR Sorors that wanted to put the cap on membership numbers through the HU chapter of NPHC. My Sorors were in disagreement, primarily because they felt membership should not be regulated by NPHC but by the individual organization.

Likewise, I hope I have not offended you or any other woman on a line of 30+ , for it certainly was not my intention.

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Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Incorporated...Every Finer Woman's Dream!



[This message has been edited by Finer Woman10-A-91 (edited May 25, 2000).]

On the contarary there is nothing offensive about being part of one of two prestigious sororities that have the problem of having so many college educated women want to obtain membership into their organization. I see it as a compliment since we don't have to recruit, competition is fierce always has been, always will be, but again i wouldn't expect you to understand http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

POSITIVELYAKA: Again, I guess it depends what area you are talking about. Maybe the fact that noone cares after one graduates reflects if it was really sisterhood or a front. I was a solo and not only did I have to learn all lines from charter members to the line before me. As if that was not enough, I also had to learn ALL lines, since 1986, of the chapter that pledged my charter members. I think it is important that that kind of histoy gets passed down. I cannot tell you about AKA, DELTA, or ZETA interest, but at this particular school, ZETAS and SGRhos have the most interest. I cannot even tell you about interest all over the country, therefore I only limit post to the chapters I do know. 100 interest or 5- How much time should one dedicate to take a close look at these ladies? Many just want to do it because: they want to stroll, family tradition, a friend or whatever. How do you separate the aboved from the ones who really have something to offer?

FINERWOMAN: Again, you have talked for the both of us, maybe without knowing.
THANK YOU>

http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif Ghost Face Killa i was just saying that most greeks once they get past the neo stage, tend to care more about what you are doing now for the sorority vs how many weeks you were on line not that your process is irrelevant because it is relevant and our relationships with our line sisters well that is forever, however as we mature as greeks we tend to have more complicated lives, with our work, husbands, children, family, church and the list goes on. So we start to put things more into perspective and what seemed like the end all in college can shift a little.

Anyway i'm with you that some do join only for the glamour of greek life while in school and that is sad, their reasoning for membership should be deeper then that. You go
girl!! on doing the Solo thang, ok when you're the Ace and the Tail there is no where to hide http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

Yes i'm an AKA but we're all still Sisters just wearing different colors and living our lives the best we know how http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

Did I miss something? Are you saying that you only recognize 2 organizations as prestigious? http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif Hmm, last time I checked, there were 4 NPHC Sororities...all of which
I was taught great respect for. In the way of Greekdom, I was taught with my 9 linesisters we give due respect to all 4, even though we are always partial to our own as being the BEST.

I don't know if you are saying recruiting is a bad thing or a good thing. From a marketing/business perspective being selective... is the OPTIMAL vantage for any organization seeking the Finest. In other words, you can either wait for the crowd and choose...or you can decide what you want and choose. Which ever tactic works for you...Wonderful. Personally, I like choosing and knowing what kind of women and who my potential Sorors are...adding the personal touch to further define true sisterhood...and nurture sisterly love.

As far as competition is concerned, Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Incorporated competes with none. We revel in our exclusive class all by ourselves. I suspect in your vast membership and fierce competion that's a concept you would not understand http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif.



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Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Incorporated...Every Finer Woman's Dream!

FINERWOMAN: You did it again. Are we on the same page or what? Damn- I like the way you're breaking it down. I am sooo very glad I feel as if you talk for the both of us ( I agree with you that is) because many in here have the tendecy to read in between my lines and miss the whole point.
Peace to you and yours- Things happen for a reason they say.

First greetings to all...I have been reading all the posts on this topic and it is one that I have always been curious about....being that I also joined my organization solo and just crossed a 8 young ladies into our organization I can tell you that having 8 girls going through a process was not a very easy thing because we are talking about coordinating 8 different schedules togethr but not only that ....the question really is HOW DO U REALLY BOND 25 PLUS GIRLS? I am sorry I just can't see it...I understand what the lady from Zeta Phi Beta is saying what is more important quantity or quality? You might have 128 girls on line who become Sorors but come on are they really friends or line ssters...lets keep it real I think alot of BGLO's always wonder about this and people snicker when someone strolls up with a jacket marked #50. I won't debate whose organization is prestigous and whose is not because that will never be resolved but when you get 300 people at a rush yes be flattered but don't forget people are doing their research, they are going with friends to support sometimes, sometimes u have people who already made up their minds but just want to go and see what the other organizations rush is all about. Everyone joins organizations for different reasons and to each their own but come on can we sit here and say that 128 girls actually bond over a weekend, week, three weeks or even a month.