One of my adopted daughters was conceived as the result of a rape. She is from a country where abortion is very easily available up to the NINTH month. Her birthmother, a teenager, shielded her pregnancy from her parents in order to save her baby.

I thank God for my daughter and I guess you know where I stand on this issue!

I fully believe in abortion and not just in cases on incest or rape. While it is easy to say that if you have sex and if you get pregnant then that is the bed you made for yourself and deal with it. I have to think of the potential child in this situation-is it fair to that child to live with someone that screwed up and may resent them. Also, will this child be living in a stable environment (though stability does not guarantee a normal child/adult it is the most ideal situation)? Will this child be provided for? I think it is selfish to bring a child into this world if you cannot provide for him or her and I do not want my taxes providing either. In the ideal world all would be responsible but this is not the case unfortunately. Personally if my mom had aborted me I wouldn't be here and I wouldn't care-you don't miss what you don't have.
I perform abortions almost every week-on cats and dogs but they are still abortions technically. The pet overpopulation is so overwhelming that I don't feel guilty about doing this. I sometimes feel that the human population is also getting out of control. I wish people would think about having children in a responsible way but there are many that do not. If you don't believe in abortion-I FULLY RESPECT your opinion, but I don't want the government telling me or any other woman out there that I can't have one no matter how I got pregnant.

[messed-up rant]

OK - a quick perusal of various sources will uncover for you some interesting information, such as when a fetus begins having a heartbeat, when alpha-wave patterns begin in the brain, and when 'mock-breathing' begins (with the still-fluid-filled lungs). Now - at what point does something become 'human?' Does being human entail having a heartbeat? Thinking? Breathing?

If so, every dolphin is, too, a human. Truth is, I don't think any of us are in a position to judge when something 'becomes' a person - think about it.

Now - why be pro-choice? People perceive a "right to choose" - a right to choose what? To have a baby (or not)? To go through labor? To have an inconvenient child, or one who will be born at an implicit disadvantage?

Well . . .

Why be anti-abortion? For many, it's due to religious and moral obligation - "killing" of the unborn child, or simply a belief that abortion should not be birth control - the "if you slip one past the goalie . . . " defense.

None of these arguments alone, from either side, makes much sense to me.

Straight up, this becomes an argument of moral values and, thus, religious structure. Think about it - this is an argument that relies on subjective definitions and notable exceptions (ie the word "living", the case of rape, etc), not one that has a clear backbone and structure. Is it murder? Well - it depends on how you define all this stuff.

I openly question the validity of imposing moral structure on others. This is NOT the same as making a law against rape, murder, or tax evasion - this is a subjective argument, with a significant split in public opinion from one side to the other.

As such - I don't think imposing any sort of anti-abortion legislation, other than making the availability of abortions "standardized" (ie eliminating partial-birth abortions etc) for all. I don't feel that imposing any sort of uniform set of values is reasonable, and abortion would be the classic example of this, I feel. I most likely would never have an abortion - but I feel that it's unimportant to my daily life that someone else may. I am in no position to rationalize making another's decision for him or her.

[/rant]

Now - if you want to hear a truly radical idea, we can get into the carrying-capacity of the earth, population controls, and the elimination of natural selection in humans . . . but we'll save that for another time - no need to toss the poopy into the fan.

I am pretty radical when it comes to this subject so whatever you have to say probably won't shock me. BTW abortion has nothing to do with religion for me but i know for many people it is intertwined.

To relpy to damasa first......
 

If you choose pro-life, is that based on a personal decision or on a religious influence?
For me its the fact that I just dont like to see people dying. Funny, Im mostly republican, pro-life and against the the death penalty. What are the odds of that.
Pro-lifers who go out and kill doctors and others who are involved with clinics are just DEAD wrong for doing it. It defeats not only the principle, but the whole freakin purpose of the cause. However, I would like to say that I have seen just as many harsh tactics get used by Pro-Choicers. Maybe not killing (that anyone knows of), but there have been many instances where they have been wayy more harsh pro-life. Two way street, sometimes both groups are nuts.
About the dolphin comment. This is just my opinion...a life is a life and breathing is breathing not matter what the species is.
About the comment of resenting the child and having it grow up in certain situations, this is just my opinion and thoughts on that....I'd keep my legs shut. If I cant help myself, there are numerous birth control methods out there for me and him to take. Sometimes you can even double up, i,e. the pill and a condom. If the condom breaks, your still in the clear. Morning after pill, hey guess what if your not sure, you have 72 hours to take it. Accidents do happen, BUT they can be prevented also. But hey people are going to do whatever they want. Its there lives and I always think you should live it for the best. For some reason I just think about the consequences of things I do before I do them, even if its in the heat of the moment. Sometimes, its after though. THIS IS JUST MY OPINION.
Also Im glad to see we have been handling this touchy subject in mature manner so far..hopefully it'll stay.

oh and I dont think any child is an accident, just using the example.

I think we should also clearify that no all pro-choicers think the same and not all pro-lifers think alike

Pro-Choice all the way.
 

This is a very sensitive topic for me. I am completely, totally, without a shadow of a doubt pro-choice. I seriously could write a book about why I feel the way I do, but I'll limit it right now to just a few reasons and personal examples.

First, I feel no one should be able to tell a woman that she has to have a baby. I get so sick and tired of seeing all these sign-waving protesters harassing women at clinics! :mad: Who gave them the right to tell someone else how she should live her life? How would they like it if a group of people decided to show up at their church as they are going to Sunday services and stand outside calling them names and screaming that they're going to hell because they don't follow the right doctrine? Or if a group of people found some past discretion in their lives and stood outside in public shouting about it to the world?

I'd be willing to bet that not a single one of those pro-life protesters has lived a 100% pious life and never made a mistake that they regret. It is for that reason that I firmly believe in the old saying, "Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."

I have a very dear friend who got pregnant in college. She was using birth control pills and, unfortunately, got pregnant even though she was practicing responsible sex. Her boyfriend supported her decision to have the abortion because they were both young and didn't feel like they a) were ready to be parents and b) couldn't give a child everything that they would like him/her to have at that point in their lives. They also didn't feel it would be fair to foist the expense of a child on their parents who were the only family members who could have afforded to bring that child up in a proper manner. So, rather than bring a child into the world under poor circumstances, they chose to have an abortion. I stand by their decision totally, and I feel that if more women would sit down and think about what kind of life they would be providing for a child then they might realize that it is better to wait and have children when they are more financially and emotionally stable themselves.

Moving on... To me, I don't think ANYONE has the right to criticize a woman who has chosen to have an abortion unless they have been in that very same circumstance. That's why I have such an enormous problem with men who protest so loudly about the evils of abortion. I guess it's pretty easy for them to stand there and yell Bible verses, knowing full well that there is no way for them to EVER be in that position themselves.

It amazes me when I hear people preaching in interviews about how a woman should give her baby up for adoption instead of choosing to have an abortion. I'd like to know exactly how many pro-life supporters would actually accept a woman's offer if she suddenly turned to them outside an abortion clinic and said, "Okay, I'll have the baby -- but you and you alone have to adopt my child and give him/her a prosperous, happy upbringing. You can't find someone to adopt him - YOU have to do it yourself." It's really easy to adamantly say, "Sure, I'd take the baby," right now in theory -- but if an instance like that happened in real-life, how many of those people would really back up their pro-life words with actions? I would, just once, love to see someone do that. I can just picture the stunned, deer-in-a-headlight looks on the majority of those protesters' faces. (Carnation - I know you'd be one of the few opening your arms out immediately and I truly respect you for that!) :)

Don't get me wrong -- I agree that adoption is a wonderful thing, and I have several friends who are unable to have children who are planning to adopt in the near future. But adoption isn't the best option for everybody.

An example: A high school friend of mine got pregnant in college. Her mother, a staunch pro-life Catholic (I'm Catholic too, by the way), convinced my friend that she should have the baby and put it up for adoption. Although it was not what she truly wanted to do, my friend bowed to her mother's wishes and had the baby. This was 7 years ago, and the girl has had severe emotional problems ever since. Carrying a child for 9 months and then giving her up was too much for that sensitive 19 year old girl to handle and she has not been the same person since. Even her pro-life mother now admits that it was not in her daughter's best interests to have the child.

Now, I'm sure that pro-life folks can give me twice as many examples as I have to justify their beliefs. But here's one more before I close.

My boyfriend's mother planned to abort him. She and her husband had married young and already had one child. When she found out she was pregnant again (just a few months after her first child was born) she was very upset. She was worried about how they would provide for two small children at that point in their lives. They weren't living in a space to accommodate another child and couldn't afford to move into a larger house. Her husband wasn't making much money and their marriage wasn't doing very well. She was convinced that having an abortion was the best thing to do. Her husband talked her out of it and my boyfriend was born.

I love him dearly, and I'm glad that his mother changed her mind. :) But, if you ask my boyfriend, he'll tell you without hesitation that he completely understands the way his mother felt and, even though he is obviously happy that she decided to go through with her pregnancy, he still feels that having a child isn't the best thing for everyone. He feels that every person's situation is different, and what is ideal for one is not always ideal for another. He refuses to judge someone on the choices they make and for that reason he is staunchly pro-choice.

Personally, I'd like to have every pro-lifer get pregnant unexpectedly one time and see how quickly some of their positions change. I personally have seen it happen twice in the past year alone. Once to a parent who suddenly found out her daughter was pregnant and the second time to a girl friend who, whenever the abortion topic was addressed, always made the comment, "well those girls are just being irresponsible... I would never be stupid enough to get in that position in the first place." (Unfortunately, there's never a dunce cap around when you need it. :rolleyes: )

I'll close for now because this is getting rather long. I hope no one takes anything I've said as a "flame". However, like I said in the beginning, I feel very strongly about this issue and I get rather emotional about it. I understand that others do also. It's just so easy for people to stand around and judge others when they haven't been in the position themselves.

Pro-choice all the freaking way.

I'm webmaster for Duke's Students for Choice, I'm a member of NARAL, Planned Parenthood's Choice Actiuon Network, Feminist Majority Foundation, People for the American Way...

This is my passion. This is my issue. This is my body. I am PRO-CHOICE.

Truthfully, if i got pregnant unexpectedly, Id have it or put it up for an open adoption. As you can see Im kind of passionate about this also in a since, cuz I keep on writing. I really dont like it when I hear woman say its my body...true it is but, and this is how I put it to myself, it wasnt just my body that was there that night and i wasnt saying its mine and you cant tell me otherwise or whatever either. Probably saying the opposite (dont mean to be blunt).

UMgirl,

I admire you for saying that. I really do. But in doing so you kind of emphasized my point.

If you got 100 unmarried women together in a room and asked them what they would do if they found themselves pregnant unexpectedly, the vast majority -- probably 90% -- would answer the same way you did. People are so quick to say, "If I got pregnant, I'd have it." And I have no doubt that, at that particular time, they staunchly mean what they say. Yet there's NO WAY to prove that statement until it truly happens to you. It's so easy to say, but 100 times harder to do. That's why many times when women find themselves in that unwelcome position, their minds change faster than you can blink. And that's why I don't think that someone should be able to make a blanket statement like that and call themselves pro-life unless they have actually walked in the shoes of a pregnant woman.

UMgirl, if next month you get pregnant and still decide to keep the baby -- and firmly believe that it is the best decision for you and your child - then I APPLAUD you, wholeheartedly, for standing up for your convictions! :)

However, I just don't feel that anyone really earns the right to protest abortion until they have the unfortunate opportunity of being faced with the decision themselves.

Hell, I said that myself until the condom broke, I had to take the morning-after pill, and my period was a week late...nothing like spending a sleepless week sobbing into a pillow and wondering if your life is over to make you think.

I am pro-life and I do not agree with blowing up abortion clinics!

Ill admitt I had (even though a comdom was used but I missed my period for 2 months...turns out just stressed) a scare and until out it was neg., the only thing I thought about was figuring out a way to say school while having a child if it was pos. I completely see and understand your point DZ but if we werent allowed to speak or view our opinion until we an experience with that something, then I believe we'd live in silence, not really knowing anything. I think everyone has a right to have their voice heard, but do it without extremes.

I am Pro Choice and even have volunteered at the clinics in walking the girls to the door past the protestors. I have been pushed, shoved, threatened and my face screamed into while ugly pictures are shoved up to my eyes of unborn fetus.

For me, I am not into the facts and statistics - I just don't think anyone deserves the scare/fright tactics that come about and I will help protect until things change.

This is a really good discussion, UMgirl. Your last comments are thought-provoking! :) I agree - everyone does have a right to their opinions, and should be allowed to express them. There is a time and place for that, though, and I think that the act of FORCING an opinion on others (i.e. protesting at an abortion clinic, taking steps to get anti-abortion laws passed) is one of the "extremes" that you mentioned.

To me, it's fine for people to discuss their viewpoints with others, and to debate the pros and cons of each side. But make sure that you're talking about it with someone who wants to hear it.

Those women walking into the abortion clinics have enough on their minds without having to listen to cries of "murderer" and "slut", or having to worry about the fact that the clinic they are visiting might be the next site of a deranged pro-lifer's violence.

And for someone to try to take away a woman's right to have an abortion -- to me -- is a step too far, also. Maybe abortion isn't an option for some people. Maybe they have strong feelings about those who choose to have abortions. But don't infringe on those who do by working to erase the legislation that protects a woman's right to care for her body in a way that she sees fit. That's just inflicting a narrow view of morality onto everyone.

For the record, I am pro-choice but I am not pro-abortion. I do not feel like abortion clinics should be used as the sole means of birth control for women, and I don't agree with women who use no birth control whatsoever and get pregnant over and over, knowing that abortions are available to help them out. However, it's not my place to judge those women or criticize their decision which is why I'm not going to play God and preach to them. And I simply don't feel like anyone else should either.