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Thought I'd share some comments about Undeclared that was sent over the AFA listserve...it offers another viewpoint of the episode and media portrayal of Greeks...from a Greek! For those of you that don't know the AFA is the Association of Fraternity Advisors and is a professional organization for Greek Advisors and others who work with Greek Life across the nation.

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Message: 15
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 21:49:06 -0500
From: "Dan Wrona" <dan@rise.cc>
Subject: Re: Undeclared

I must vent about some of the responses to the "Undeclared" episode, but please understand that my thoughts are not unique to this example. They are a result of the frustration I feel each time something is published about fraternities and sororities. Also please note that this is in reference to many examples and individuals, but not to any specific example or individual. And please pardon the sarcasm.

I watched the episode. My thoughts? - They painted a very accurate picture of the undergraduate interfraternal world today. I watched the entire episode very carefully, picking up on all the little innuendoes they included. There was NOTHING in the episode that I have not seen firsthand before. NOTHING was blown out of proportion. NOTHING was an inaccurate portrayal of what exists in reality. Based on my experience, it could very easily have been 'based on a true story'.

Yet our response is to tell Fox that we don't like what they said? "Please stop using the truth on TV, it makes us look bad." And we use this same
response over and over in every controversial public portrayal of us! Time to find a new way to approach the issue? I think so.

Here's one of many thoughts: I wonder if, because this is our profession, we immediately resort to whining and taking offense to everything that is
put on TV out of fear that it will be/is negative? Are we just overly sensitive? Why don't we like it when light fun is poked at us about our corny songs and our odd ceremonies? Sounds like nsecurity to me - again, are we ashamed of the truth?

Another...Can't we dig deeper into these things and use them as an educational tool about how to approach the real problem? It's a common
maxim, only when you recognize and admit your faults / shortcomings / weaknesses, can you improve on them. In the instance of "Undeclared", they point us to some interesting questions. One: Is the struggle of maintaining friendships outside of our organizations a natural phenomena, or is it
'bad'? I'm not sure, but if it IS something we want to not happen, how can we prepare our members to prevent it? Two: Why did they choose to use
'personal tasks' as their example of hazing? Perhaps because it seems to be the most common form of hazing currently. Does this aspect need some extra attention? Do we need to stop saying 'don't haze' and start talking about how respect is earned naturally?

When will we stop acting like our undergraduate members, grow up, and be a little bit smarter about things? "Hey, they said something about us. They must not like us. They're attacking us! We have to fight back! C'mon, everybody, Let's go!" Sound familiar? Sound absurd? (I'm curious - Is
this a natural fraternal instinct that we create in ourselves in response to untrusted outsiders? Never mind. Enough for now.)

Shots can be fired back at me directly.

Dan
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Daniel J. Wrona
Co-Founder
RISE Consulting
PO Box 713
Northville, MI 48167
voice mail: (248) 349-5274
cell/work: (716) 474-8967
dan@rise.cc
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"Life is not tried it is merely survived if you're
standing outside the fire." ~Garth Brooks

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Well, while I understand where Mr Wrona is coming from, I think he is omitting one major point.

I don't think that any of us would say we want hazing, Greek/non-Greek animosity or any other problems swept under the rug. You can't deal with something until you talk about it. The issue many of us have is that coverage of Greeks is SO NEGATIVELY ONE SIDED. I don't want us to be portrayed as angels, or as devils....just as humans.

I didn't see the episode, but as far as maintaining relationships outside of the Greek system, I can say that I went out of my way to do so with my best friend from the dorm. She was an RA, so I usually stopped by her dorm on my way from class...if she wasn't there I'd leave a "let's get together" message. I always visited her, never the other way around. I tried not to mention my sorority too often because the Greek system was a sore spot with her. And what did I get for my trouble? I heard her saying to someone that "sororities control your life and change who you are." Really, who's the snob in that situation? I'd like to see Undeclared do an episode about that. But where would be the appeal in doing that, even if it is "based on a true story"? None. It's not sensational enough, and it doesn't fit the stereotype.

Also getting back to Mr Wrona's post...that "when will we stop acting like undergrads and grow up" comment is seriously not cool. Anyone with that kind of condescending attitude toward young adults should not be a fraternity advisor.

Round II
 

Apparently this weeks episode is about initiation, so I am sure the inherent 'hazing' stereotypes will prevail.

Wanna take bets on what the initiation will consist of????

Three A.M. wakeup call to wash a brother's car!

I saw a commercial that had Steven standing on the balcony of the fraternity house with a brother. Steven was holding a string tied to a brick and the brother told him to "Tie it on and throw it..." and Steven pitifully crying "Tie it on to what?!?!?"

This is obviously a return to the mentioning of hazing that was discussed in the earlier episode as one of Stevens roommates said that fraternities make you tie a string attached to a brick to your wang and throw it out the window...

My son tunes in to about 20 min. of this show from time to time.
It does have some humorous moments, but think overall it's pretty lame. I would venture a guess with all the basketball games, TV sports, Christmas activities and tests coming up,(my son is in the middle of mid terms) the majority of people who even cared about watching were Greeks who noted this specific episode. There wasn't anything that hasn't been portrayed in a MORE negative light before. All in all, I don't think a person would form an opinion about Greeks due to a silly episode of a comedy on TV. If they did, well, they need to expand their thinking beyond the tube. Honestly, there isn't a whole lot to be upset about. It's just a spoof and any INTELLIGENT person won't base their opinions on an episode of Udeclared.

it's a pity
 

they don't take the time or the energy to get it right.
mmcat
:eek:

AH, the Hazing Episode...

I saw a lot of the stereotypical types of abuse that people associate with hazing, EXCEPT no alcohol abuse!!! I was really amazed that they avoided the drinking games and mass consumption of heavy quantities of alcohol in regards to hazing. For which I am glad...

For the most part, all of the hazing was the humiliating, embarrasing, and servitude type.
The chicken feathers reminded me of a scene from Revenge of the Nerds...the caged pledges being doused with mustard, ketchup and eggs reminded me of the "Frat House documentary" that was almost shown on HBO before being discovered it was all staged and fake...the dressing up in stupid clothes and other humiliating situations in public reminded me of other Hollywood depictions of Greek life.

For the most part, the hazing was the physically harmless but personally degrading and embarrasing kind...like being tied to a tree in the middle of campus in a speedo with "boobs" written and drawn on your chest.

I thought they showed the prime reason why hazing continues in our Greek organizations today...the "Because I had to do it" reason...the pledge master was intent on putting these guys through all sorts of misery (especially eating about a million huge pickles) all because he was put through the same type of things when he was a pledge. That's the simple reason why most hazing continues pledge class after pledge class...and the funniest part was how Steven and his pledge brothers were told that all the hazing "builds brotherhood".

I commended Steven's refusal to take part in the hazing anymore and his revelation that being subjected to such stupid actions does NOT "build brotherhood" or make you closer friends to your fraternity brothers, it simply makes you hate them for putting you through it and does nothing to build a lasting bond of friendship.

Did anyone catch the "insult" the Little Sisters threw at Lizzie as she quit their group? The head Little Sister said, "She's such a Tri-Delt!" which I assume was meant as a slight to the sorority girls which the Little Sisters claimed to be nothing like...

Any other thoughts on last night's episode?

I missed it. Revenge of the Nerds II was on. Gotta love the tri-lambdas.

Pike4life...Yep, I heard the Tri Delt comment. It was just thrown out there and made me wonder why they picked on them.

Anyone who didn't see the show, Pike4life summed it up better than a TV guide. Right on the money with the benefit of some great insight.

This really wasn't a "biggie", in my opinion, but maybe my age has moved me out of the bracket where something like this would bother me.

Thanks for clarifying, it soudned like "Tri-Delt" but I wasn't too sure...I wonder why they did pick on them...

Yeah, I was like, "Where the hell did that come from?" I don't know, I guess I just have a soft and fuzzy spot in my heart for the Tri-Deltas, especially since I preffed them along with Kappa and my own sorority. The Tri-Deltas I know are nothing but pure class...

This is a dumb question but when does Undeclared come on or whree can I find this info out for myself? I'd love to watch it and share my opinion on it.

Leigh Ann...

Channel 14 (FOX in Shreveport) has it on. I forgot what channel its on on-campus...it might be that. And I totally forgot when it comes on here! But you could probably check www.tvguide.com or something.

xoxox Brian