Uptight wasn't quite the right word I guess - the point I was trying to make was that if she was reporting sisters on things like boys shacking and drinking under the sorority house roof (both illegal according to nationals) it surprises me that she would consent to be an unofficial or official "little sister" of a fraternity (also illegal according to nationals), or that your average college guy would consider a girl who does that a desirable person to wear his letters.

I mean even though this is obviously a she said-they said deal, that seems like an odd thing for anyone to pull out of their rump and call her on if it didn't happen.

^^^True and I see your point.

True, it is embarrassing for mommy to go to HQ for you, but Sigma's HQ is only an hour and a half drive away from her home. It's not like she had to fly there.

Lane Change //

Why is it embarrassing for a parent to step in and assist their child in a situation that seemed to be spiraling out of control? From the post it appears everyone believes mom acted as Super Mom & used her super powers to fly to nationals to take control. I want to believe this was a situation that the family had been dealing with for quite a while. I have a hunch at the point that mom went to HQ to discuss the situation, the girls grades may have been being affected, etc.

We as parents send our children off to college & we try to allow them to learn, grow, & mature - but there are plenty of times when they still need guidance, a shoulder to cry on, & someone to step in & help.

Sometimes 18 to 21 year old girls need their mothers more then 14 yr olds do...& until you are mother of one - Please do not be so quick to judge a mother's choice to assist her daughter if she was crying for help. (if the girl accusations are correct or not) (once a mother cat - always a mother cat )

//

Yeah. But where do you draw the line? I think her mother should have advised her to drop out or call Sigma HQ herself. Driving an hour and a half to Sigma to discuss private chapter business is IMHO way to much. Is she going to go to her daughter's work and take it up with her boss when she doesn't like how things are going in her daughter's professional life? There are appropriate ways for a parent to help a child and inappropriate ways. Going to her sorority HQ was inappropriate.

Because if my child were being abused in the ways she claims, I would immediately remove her from the harmful situation, not expect a national officer to wave a magic wand and make the situation go away. I'm smart enough to know that my involvement in that way will only make things worse, even if the immediate threat is removed by nationals. It seems to me there's a heck of a lot more that happened here and I doubt anyone will ever know all the details.

My child's well being is much more important than any sorority membership, and it seems to me that the mother or the daughter were willing to continue the claimed abuse simply because she wanted to be a sorority member. I still can't figure out why she wanted to continue to be sisters with girls she found so horrible.

LOL...I always love that is one of the first things quoted against involved parents...There is a HUGE difference between helping your children during the college years (while their brain is still maturing, btw) & calling up Steve Jobs to complain about their performance raise.


Here is a possible question...Maybe Mom was a Sigma....article doesn't state one way or the other.

A 20 year old is old enough to be out on their own with their own children. When do you draw the line? And don't act like it doesn't happen, because we all know it does. BTW, I am quite aware of the maturation rate of the human brain. It still doesn't excuse this type of behavior in helicopter parents.

I agree. Helping a child = moral support, not doing things FOR the child. If daughter had wanted to go to Sigma headquarters, and mom decided to drive her there, or even be present (but quiet) for the meeting***, it would be a whole separate matter. The fact is that mom tried to fix it, instead of helping her daughter learn how to best fix it.

***this depends on the type of meeting, too. If there were a legitimate meeting with, say, more than one Sigma rep, I would think it fair that daughter gets to bring a parent/lawyer/whomever so as not to be outnumbered.

When I was in college (hell, when I was in high school) I went to my parents for guidance. I did not ask them to fix my problems for me. They gave me advice, and allowed me, as an adult, to act upon that advice.

Am I a mom? Not for another few weeks. But I well remember how I felt when I was in college, and I can say with absolutely no equivocation that I would have been embarrassed as hell if my parents had done anything even remotely similar. It's one thing to provide advice, it's another altogether to step in and act for them when they are adults and need to learn how to act for themselves.

DZsis&mom, I was a little torn on this because I am also the mother of a college student and truthfully, if it were my daughter and AXO's HQ was in driving distance of me I would be sorely tempted to jump in my car, head there, and give somebody what for. Probably a good thing I have no idea where their HQ is in case such a situation ever came up.

I also agree that regardless of what some 18-22 year olds are capable of doing or accomplishing at that age, most college students are still geared towards thinking of themselves as somewhat dependent on their parents and their parents, since they are usually still financially and physically responsible for them to some degree, are even more geared towards thinking of them that way. And the job/career example really isn't comparable to this situation as it is being described.

Still, after giving it some thought and trying to separate myself from my inner helicopter parent, I concur with the other posters on here who feel that mom going to HQ was a step too far.

While I may disagree with the analogies, I have to agree with AOII Angels primary point. Why in the world would a mom who cared enough to drive to the HQ let her daughter stay in this group, let alone move in. Assuming she's paying for it (don't know that she is), why would she pay another dime for her daughter to stay in this situation? To me the more logical, less intrusive, and simpler step if I were inclined to be that involved as a parent (and I probably would be) is to say, "Look, I think you need to be done with this group and I think you're crazy to move into that house, but if you insist on continuing, you'll be paying for college and your dues on your own."

I don't know who is telling the truth but the timeline makes me question her.

According to the article she witnessed events 4/9/10, complained and the "hazing" began. She initiated 8/16/10.

Question 1 for her: Why did you continue to be part of an organization that "hazed" you for 4 more months and then decide to initiate?

To me this makes no sense. I get she is young but really unless she is so desperate for the need to belong, why would you WILLINGLY initiate into an organization that you claim is hazing you? I don't get it.

Question 2: Why did you move into the house with the women you claim were hazing you?

She then went to honor councils on 10/17/10 and 11/17/10.

She called nationals on 11/15/10 to complain about the "abuse". (So now I question her motives. Did she call nationals because she had only been initiated 3 months prior, had already been brought to honor council once and was about to go a second time).

She was then brought to honor council for the 3rd time 3/15/10 and was told on 3/18/10 that she was about to be brought the 4th time (which could mean loss of membership).

So in 9 months of being an initiated member she was brought to honor council 4 times.

She then moved out of the house 4/3/11.

But then waited to file a LAWSUIT until October 2011.

For me it's like wait a minute.
1. why did you join if you were being hazed?
2. why did you move into the house?
3. did you speak to the advisors or did you go straight to nationals?
4. why did you wait OVER a year to file a lawsuit (which to me most lawsuits are about people wanting money).

The kicker, the trial won't be for another year and half.

Something about what she is claiming seems very fishy to me. Like I just cannot imagine the advisors to the chapter or nationals sitting back and doing nothing, which it seems like that is the basis of her argument. Considering NPC has a no hazing policy and all the sororities have no hazing policies, schools have no hazing policies, I just don't buy it.

Especially if what the article claimed was true, that the chapter had been given 8 sanctions for hazing. If this were true, then they would have been on the Tri-Sigma radar of "we need to closely watch this chapter".

Something about it doesn't make me believe her.

I do think that she did tell and that she did suffer backlash for telling. But I don't think she is telling the whole story, the fact that she was brought up to 4 honor councils in 9 months doesn't say much for her.

Just my opinion.

Because at some point you have to cut the umbilical cord. Also, in this case, mother interjecting herself into a situation which was none of her business could not possibly have helped the situation. When I was an active chapter officer, I had a member's mother call HQ about something I did. She leveled some pretty serious (and totally false) allegations against me and another officer. The other officer got a call from HQ, and this mother and her child were kind of the running joke around there. You call HQ because your daughter can't do it and it's very unlikely anyone is going to take her seriously. In fact, if the chapter processed her out for some reason, your activities in this department are right or wrong confirming to the folks at HQ that indeed there was something wrong with this girl.

"Until you are mother" is such a crap cop out. We don't have kids. My wife is a high school teacher... I guess until she's a mother, she's unfit to teach children? I handle a lot of child custody cases and represent children pro bono in the juvenile system against their idiot parents... I guess I'm unfit to do that because I don't have children myself?

Being a mother doesn't grant you magical insight. In fact, in my experience, it actually makes you a lot less objective about things and can lead to poor decisions such as driving to your daughter's HQ to fight battles which are not your own. If you're fighting all of your daughter's battles for her, are you doing that so you can feel good or are you doing it because it's going to help your daughter learn how to be an adult?

This has been my thought. If it was so horrible, why stay & continue to pay money to go through that? Assuming all allegations are true, I'm by no means excusing behavior of the sorority members named, but this member also had the choice to leave at any time if she felt her complaints were not properly being handled. Membership in any organization is not worth that crap.

If I ruled the world...
 

If I worked at HQ and Mommy showed up to meet with me, first I would only discuss "procedure" i.e., rules/policies, etc. with her. If your daughter is 18 or older, (it doesn't matter if parents are paying dues) I cannot discuss your daughter's situation with you without her written approval. If I have the written approval, then I will tell you everything that I know about your precious child, including things she might not want you to know.