I'm sure that the ASA alumnae will do whatever it takes to make the actives feel like they didn't lose all of their heritage. It appears the rest of Greek Life is supporting their decision.

They'll probably employ the Phoenix a lot more and since there's no ZTA chapter on campus, they can do a lot more with the star and crown too. Heck, if you have to buy a stuffed eagle and sew flames on its butt so be it. :p

I mean if everyone on campus sees the ladybug and thinks of another sorority (and I get the impression they are pretty wedded to their mascots) the last thing you want to do is 1) confuse rushees or 2) take the attitude of "we're national, you're local, so we get the mascot."

They also can employ the gold as an accent color to differentiate themselves. That's what Slippery Rock always did since they also had AOII.

It's all about being respectful and realizing that you are the new kids on the block. :)

I giggled.

:D

Sorry, been on a work trip.

Short answer: Over my dead body.

Otterbein has one national (NIC) fraternity, Alpha Sigma Phi,. The NPHC orgs have some that are dedicated Otterbein chapters and some that are City Wide chapters (as far as I remember).

There's never really been a push for it on our campus, and I'd be really, really sad if it ever went that way. TD will be celebrating 90 years this year...90!. Sigma Alpha Tau (Owls) is over 100. I think Kappa Phi Omega is hitting 100 soon, as is TEM, and EKT and Theta Nu aren't far behind. Each one is over 80 years old. That is a long and established tradition. Among the alumni, I think such a move would cause great uproar. The Greek alumns are very involved, and give financially to the university and their chapters (I do too, even on my meager salary).

To wipe that off the map...would be a real shame. It would be ruining a huge part of Otterbein's history in my mind.

Further, recruitment at OC (sorry, OU) has always been small-ish. Our largest chapter I think hit the 70s. My chapter was almost always the smallest in the 20's or 30's. And because we are local...that's ok. There's not a push or a desperate need to "get quota". Yeah it's cool if you do, but it's no big deal.

Plus...dues. Wow, that would take some adjustment.

Finally, there's not really a demand for another chapter. Each chapter tends to find its balance point and be at a good number for their resources. Very rarely are girls left without a bid or an opportunity to join in their careers (joining as a sophomore, junior or even the occasional senior is not uncommon). I could understand if we had hundreds of girls sitting in Campus Center on bid day bidless, but that's not the case. So if we're talking about bringing a national to be another chapter, it likely wouldn't make any financial sense. If we're talking about a national taking over a local...that would likely go down like a fart in church.

Yep...I definitely saw the value of respecting the established sorority's mascot. That could be a mess otherwise. I was just wondering if they would use the phoenix (which we tend to under-utilize), or if--for this special case--Raggedy Ann might make a late appearance. (I know she wasn't official, but she was definitely loved.)

The problem with Annie is that she was a licensed character and those cost $$$. We used to be able to buy tons of stuff with imitation Annie on it - t shirts, water bottles etc - but I know way back in the mid 90s, Annie started going away from what we could find at the Greek store and the ladybugs started popping up.

But hey hmmm, I just found this in Wikipedia.

While Simon & Schuster and Hasbro claim to own trademarks to the Raggedy Ann and/or Raggedy Ann and Andy names, the original 1915 doll design and 1918 and 1920 books are in the public domain, their copyright having expired. Books and films published after 1950 are protected by copyright.

I am facebook friends with a high school classmate that is a "Chi" alum (the local at Capital that uses "bugs") and from her posts, the Chi alums aren't very happy.

One of the posts basically said that she "earned her bugs" and wasn't going to share with a group that "gives them away". (I wanted to ask how she earned them, but didn't want to sound like an NPC snob)

I think at the root of it more has to do with her and her sisters fear that all the locals start joining NPC groups. It seems like the alums are more anxious to keep the local traditions than the actives are.

So I talked briefly to hubby's older cousin who is a Zeta at Capital. She didn't know if alum would be able to affiliate (AI) with ASA, nor did she care. She would not be doing anything of the sort. It kinda made me sad for her. But I'm happy that the actives are so excited about everything. I'm debating suggesting that maybe she and the other upset alums contact ladies from John Carroll. They have 5 NPC groups now, and they're all only 6 (or so?) years old. All of the Locals there took on NPC affiliation at once, and I'm sure there was great resentment from alum as well. But maybe the Local JCU alum could give advice on how to move forward? I don't know. Hubby's cousin said something along the lines of "Zeta will never die at Capital. There are active Zeta sisters who will not affiliate with the new national sorority. It is up to them to keep Zeta alive on campus." Which, if that's the case... will make for some bad blood.

^^^I don't believe JCU had such issues since it wasn't a decision that the chapter made. It was a decision of the university, and since all went national at the same time, I didn't hear any static.

ETA: Some of the JCU locals had not been around very long. Kappa Delta Gamma, now Kappa Kappa Gamma (2001), was founded in 1998. The Zeta at Capital were founded in the early 1960s.

^^Yeah, that's a whole different animal. When everyone has to do it at once everyone kind of deals with it even if they detest the idea because it's either that or cease to be. (ETA: I thought that KDG group was a merger of two groups that had been there. I think there's a thread on here talking about who became what.)

I would wager every single local that's gone national - no matter how tight, no matter how close - has had sisters who didn't affiliate. Two of our most popular BXU (our local) sisters didn't go ASA. If alums want to AI, that's wonderful, but if they don't feel comfy with it, that's OK too.

What I'm gathering is that the alums felt out of the loop and this just shows that if you want to keep a local going nowadays, alumnae-collegian involvement is imperative. If one or the other falls out of touch, keep on their butts until you're back in touch. Especially if the school is leaning/pushing toward national groups.

Here is what I found. Theta Kappa wanted to merge with KDG prior to going national with KKG. I had to dig into my archives for that one. Theta Kappa eventually became Kappa Delta.

Why would that make you sad for her? Imagine if, in a far off universe, Theta was to be affiliated with another sorority. You would give up all of your letters, your badge, your symbols, your ritual, your history, your chapter traditions and anything Theta. All of those things that you held so dear as a collegian and as an alumna. That's where this woman is coming from. She didn't pledge and initiate into ASA. She didn't participate in ASA's rituals. She is from HER chapter.

My ritual vows included something along the lines of "lifelong love and fidelity to Tau Delta", and I'm pretty sure most of us said something along the same lines. And I can see where she would feel that turning her back on that would be an insult to the vows she took.

Please realize that I'm not against ASA, a colony is something to celebrate! Obviously the decision took a lot of time and agony, and there's a long road ahead. My comments are just to give some perspective from an alumna of an historic local.

Anyway...it's just Capital ;-p

KIDDING, JUST KIDDING! Otterbein and Capital are historic rivals. HUGE rivalry. I'm kidding!

It's not turning your back...it's more like if your dad gets remarried, it doesn't mean your mom isn't your mom anymore, you have a mom and a stepmom. You don't have to reject your stepmom to still love your mom.

I'm sure there will be lots of zebra print ASA letters...that's fine. I'm sure they will also continue to do some of the philanthropic events they did as Zeta Pi Lambda. ZPL's history - that automatically becomes part of the new ASA chapter's history, because if that local hadn't existed, that chapter of ASA wouldn't exist either. And our ritual doesn't include a brain-drain a la Men In Black where any remembrance of your previous ritual is completely eradicated.

Like I said, if women don't want to AI, that's perfectly fine and I completely understand, but it doesn't mean the ones who do are committing a betrayal, because the local is becoming part of something bigger. Unless, of course, there are enough sisters who don't affiliate and try to keep the local going, and that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish.

Oh, I realize that. That's what I was saying. I'm sad for her, sad that they feel they are losing everything. I'd be devastated. I'm happy for the actives who are so excited about it, and sad for the alum who are so disappointed and heartbroken over it. Not "sad" over the fact that she'll choose not to affiliate if given the opportunity.

Oof, I feel like a right ass. I'm sorry I took your comment the wrong way. Internet+too many hours at work this week + delirious from running too far= Phoenix is oversensitive.