GreekChat.com Forums - Is making a pledge sing hazing?

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- - Is making a pledge sing hazing? (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=119333)

Quote:

Originally Posted by deta (Post 2046593)

I'm usually a lurker, and this will be my second post since Fall of 09, so please no heavy mocking. My fraternity as most is part of NIC, and has a strict 'no hazing' policy. Many of my brothers have taken that as a no physical contact rule, and have started other forms of 'testing' or penalties for wrong answers. One of these is singing in public or in private if a pledge does an act that is against the rules or gets an answer wrong.

The songs are usually child hood nursery rhymes, pop-music, etc. As far as I can tell it serves no real benefit, other than humoring the brothers. On the other hand, no pledge in the last year or so has had any qualms with it. I'm just curious if it can be considered hazing?

FIPG Policy on Hazing
No chapter, colony, student (pledge or member) or alumnus shall conduct nor condone hazing activities. Hazing activities are defined as:

Ant actions taken or situation created, intentionally, whether on or off fraternity premises, to produce or causes mental or physical discomfort, embarrassment, harassment, or ridicule. Such activities may include but are not limited to the following: use of alcohol; paddling in any form; creation of excessive fatigue; physical and psychological shocks’ quests, treasure hunts, scavenger hunts, road trips or any other such activities carried on outside or inside of the confines of the chapter house’ kidnappings, whether by pledge or active members’ wearing of public apparel which is conspicuous and not normally in good taste’ engaging in public stunts and buffoonery; morally degrading or humiliating games and activities’ and any other such activities that are not consistent with academic achievement, fraternal law, ritual or policy, or the regulations and policies of the educational institution, or applicable state law.

I think almost everyone follows FIPG, so it'd definitely be considered hazing by those standards

Is a scavenger hunt that everyone participates in, and which is merely collecting an assortment of items, where everyone has the same list, hazing or just an activity?

People, stop asking GC and consult your organization's guidelines and/or institution's guidelines (for some schools, the institutional guidelines trump organizational guidelines for some things).

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElieM (Post 2046866)

Is a scavenger hunt that everyone participates in, and which is merely collecting an assortment of items, where everyone has the same list, hazing or just an activity?

If it's a scavenger hunt that requires you to:
"Take a photo of you and your fellow pledges giving the finger to a bunch of Hells Angels", it's probably an unwise activity to participate in.

I'm just saying.....

<shrug>

Quote:

Originally Posted by CutiePie2000 (Post 2046886)

LMAO this made my study break! but the night is young still...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anchored4Ever (Post 2046934)

Defined, hazing speaks of ANYTHING only asked of certain members....

I left out the rest to remind people that this in and of itself isn't what makes something hazing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anchored4Ever (Post 2046934)

It's hazing. Defined, hazing speaks of ANYTHING only asked of certain members, and points to things that could be configured as mentally, emotionally, or physically harmful - regardless of the victim's willingness to participate.

No, no, no, no, no.

Some organizations, some campus policies and some state laws define hazing that way, but not all do.

Dr. Phil has it exactly right: If you are concerned that something may be hazaing contact appropriate people in your GLO and on your campus. That's the only way you're going to get a reliable answer.

^Exactly.

Take the State of Oklahoma's definition:

Quote:

1. "Hazing" means an activity which recklessly or intentionally endangers the mental health or physical health or safety of a student for the purpose of initiation or admission into or affiliation with any organization operating subject to the sanction of the public or private school or of any institution of higher education in this state;

2. "Endanger the physical health" shall include but not be limited to any brutality of a physical nature, such as whipping, beating, branding, forced calisthenics, exposure to the elements, forced consumption of any food, alcoholic beverage as defined in Section 506 of Title 37 of the Oklahoma Statutes, low-point beer as defined in Section 163.2 of Title 37 of the Oklahoma Statutes, drug, controlled dangerous substance, or other substance, or any other forced physical activity which could adversely affect the physical health or safety of the individual; and

3. "Endanger the mental health" shall include any activity, except those activities authorized by law, which would subject the individual to extreme mental stress, such as prolonged sleep deprivation, forced prolonged exclusion from social contact, forced conduct which could result in extreme embarrassment, or any other forced activity which could adversely affect the mental health or dignity of the individual

Under that definition, it probably wouldn't be hazing. Some folks think their organization's policy, full of vagaries like "mental discomfort" are universal, and that's just not true.

Thread titles I see when I'm tired:

"Is making a pledge sin hazing?"

"Is making a pledge sign hazing?"

Mental pictures:
Forcing a pledge to take the Lord's name in vain.
Forcing a pledge to lie.
Forcing a pledge to learn ASL.
Forcing a pledge to make a sign about how he's a pledge.
Forcing a pledge to sign the Declaration of Independence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 2046998)

^Exactly.

Take the State of Oklahoma's definition:

3. "Endanger the mental health" shall include any activity, except those activities authorized by law, which would subject the individual to extreme mental stress, such as prolonged sleep deprivation, forced prolonged exclusion from social contact, forced conduct which could result in extreme embarrassment, or any other forced activity which could adversely affect the mental health or dignity of the individual.

Under that definition, it probably wouldn't be hazing. Some folks think their organization's policy, full of vagaries like "mental discomfort" are universal, and that's just not true.

I could see this activity causing extreme embarrassment under this statute. I don't think this is a good example.

Quote:

Originally Posted by agzg (Post 2047005)

At least someone haz cheezburger :D Thanks agzg. I won't even go into the thoughts I've had over the TLC-titled thread, because I don't want tld going after me...

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzTheta (Post 2047015)

At least someone haz cheezburger :D Thanks agzg. I won't even go into the thoughts I've had over the TLC-titled thread, because I don't want tld going after me...

The strange sex one?

Obviously tld has strange sex. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOII Angel (Post 2047008)

I could see this activity causing extreme embarrassment under this statute. I don't think this is a good example.

I don't see it being prosecuted for that. In our state, only branding, severe beatings and severe forced alcohol abuse have ever been prosecuted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 2047244)

I don't see it being prosecuted for that. In our state, only branding, severe beatings and severe forced alcohol abuse have ever been prosecuted.

It would seem to be a silly thing to prosecute alone, but I bet it would be tacked with other counts if they got busted for more serious issues. It would seem pointless to add a whole paragraph to the statute with no intention of ever enforcing it...such is politics I guess.

I'm pretty sure scavenger hunts are considered hazing at U of Tennessee