Unfortunately, with the insurance companies running our orgs, the only time that's going to happen is if this country starts advocating personal responsibility and treating young adults like adults. The fwap fwaps aren't helping at all with the latter.

It's not just a Greek issue, it's a societal issue.

I think this is what we are all trying to go for in our responses. The question is, how do we make this a more real part of the recruitment experience? Ultimately it is up to every woman to make the decision in her mind to seek out the chapter that best fits her, but is there and in what ways can we aid women in their attempts to stay neutral and keep an open mind?

It seems that having recruitment earlier (i.e. as soon as women get to campus) would help, but I have no empirical data to back that up. Anyone with deferred recruitment want to weigh in?

As was mentioned upthread, though, it does no good to make quota and then lose half your pledge class as they find out in the next few weeks that you are not a popular chapter.

I completely agree. I've seen the difference between my relationship with my parents (they had me when they were older and I have older siblings who pulled me towards GenX) and the relationship some of my younger friends and my last boyfriend have with their parents. I don't see my parents as my buddy or my friend, they are my parents and it blows my mind the sharing and activities that differ by just a few years. I'm not saying my mom and I aren't friendly, but she's first and foremost always my mom and there's a very different relationship I see with kids now. I'd never take my mom to a fraternity house or out bar hopping during Mom's weekend, nor would she be interested. We don't borrow the clothes of the other, shop in the same departments, or share sexual details like I witness others do. I'm not a shameful prude but I have peers and siblings to discuss intimacy with and unless someone ends up pregnant there's really no reason to share details of hookups and one's partner with their parents. Granted I think my parents would rather not know not because they are in denial, but because there is a clear line and if I was in a situation my (bio/step) sisters would look out for me.

I think it was Munchkin who mentioned a friend in higher ed. who attended a conference where the dynamics of parents and kids were discussed about how kids were viewed by their parents since they had careers and put kids on hold, and are therefore seen as more precious and an investment and how it leads to helicopter parenting. Maybe it wasn't publicized but I read in the news about underage kids with alcohol and that parents purchased it, and so many kids on campus don't think an MIP or a DUI is a big deal and aren't afraid to tell their parents, and in some cases the parents have them too so no biggie.

I think I'm down and raging because it is election day tomorrow or something.

I know I've said this on here before, but your paragraph above hits the nail on the head. It's doable for a "less popular" chapter to put on a mask for a week. Then people start coming back to school...and you hear random comments from people in your dorm...or you don't have any mixers...and you realize you've been took, hoodwinked, bamboozled.

Often (unfortunately) this isn't what the chapter itself wants to do, but what they feel pressured into doing, either from the Big Mascots who want the chapter's reputation to improve (and who apparently have forgotten how much of an epic fail something like this can be), or from the ginormous but necessary house that needs to be filled (I just pictured the house being all "feed me, Seymour, feed me").

If you go through deferred rush, for the most part (by which I mean unless you're an idiot who hid in your room for a semester), you KNOW the reps of the XYZ cokeheads, and the PQR geeks, and the ABC jocks. You join where you join because regardless of the rep, you like them anyway. It's a lot easier to deflect that sort of silliness when you've had a whole semester to see for yourself it isn't true, rather than only having had 2 weeks.

I've got friends that have multiple arrests and no punishment, discuss their weekend hook ups with their mom...all that stuff. My parents are not my friends, and I will not be my child's friend. I complained about their rules as a teenager, but of course I'm now grateful.

I've noticed lately with all the parents on facebook now you can tell who the parent-friends vs. parents are easily. I'm still shocked every time I see someone's mom post details of their sex life on their walls. That will never not shock me.

I think we need to stress something we go on about, mutual selection. You mentioned that a woman needs to seek out the chapter that best fits her, and I see that as a road to failure because she doesn't get to make all the decisions. Granted we are discussing teenagers for the most part but I don't think these kids can 100% say they belong in a group and cite a good fit. We need to do our part to stress that it is a mutual process and not every PNM will be successful and that if she is not completely released she should decide if she wants to be in a sorority or not, and accept how the system works. It is rare that a woman goes through again and gets into XYZ, and perhaps if we make it clear from the get go the reality of who wants a PNM and how our organizations have similarities women can get in where they fit in.


I come from a campus that has rush before classes start and the women move in on bid day and I think it has more negatives than positives for the women and men in the system as well as the campus culture as a whole. I see membership for life and living in a dorm for a year is not going to kill our groups but since we have houses to pay for we're stuck in the cycle. I forecast students staying in school and succeeding, less chance of RM issues (especially hazing), and people adjusting to school and making friends outside of joining chapters. This is because people join before school but I am a fan of deferred recruitment after the first semester or quarter of grades due to seeing college as a place to receive an education with Greek membership as a bonus.

Women move in on Bid Day so dropping incurs some fees due to breaking a contract, but we lose people in the system at semester or the end of the year because they fail out and either lose their financial aid or parents blame the Greek system. I know kids in residence halls do the same things, but when one lives in a hall with all kinds of people and an RA some behaviors cannot be ignored or kept quiet, and I see it as a benefit if chapter brothers and sisters and outside people (RAs, friends, floor mates) all see if someone is struggling or needs help. I also have seen people leave membership because the house has to have people living in it and they are juniors and seniors and want an apartment instead of Greek Life. Sometimes a chapter facility is an albatross around our collective necks.

I think on the old south campuses, early recruitment doesn't make a difference because recruitment actually starts 6 months or more earlier with the campus visits and alumnae teas for high schoolers. These girls are trained to know which girls they know are in which houses. However, at these same schools, they seem to be doing just fine with parity, so lack of anonymity doesn't seem to be a hindrance.

I just think spending truckloads of money on decorations sets a precedent of wasteful spending which ends up biting the young women in the arse 4 years later when they're buying their first car, apartment, etc. I don't know how much it helps or hinders recruitment, but it's a good life lesson that you can put on a perfectly lovely event and not spend a fortune.

I like the idea of all the Greek women wearing the same t-shirt on day one of recruitment which would I suppose sell sorority life as an institution instead of focusing right off the bat on the individual chapters.

I also LOVE the idea of chapter retention awards, both at the campus and inter/national sorority levels. Now THAT would be something to crow about during recruitment - we have the highest member retention on campus so that's proof our members are the happiest!

Fixed your post. LOL. This is actually what I thought it said when I first read it and I was like "so true."

I completely agree with you, my parents aren't even on Facebook, they don't even text and it is bliss. I felt so sorry for the friend who became intimate and was informed by their partner their mom knew the friend was the first sexual experience of their partner, and then met the mom and sat through a dinner. I recently saw on the facebook feed of the person who told mom they did the deed, that their step mother was taking quizzes and one of the questions was if this person was a virgin and a good kisser. That is a line I never want to have crossed.

I think for some women it starts before they have been born and it is a cultural system we don't understand and may lessen but never disappear. Not only are there students from out of state, but there are many college students who are the first to go to college and have no knowledge of the systems in place and if they are lucky don't get told who someone thinks is the bee's knees or cat's pyjamas and these girls go through and join a chapter based on mutual selection and not the opinions of people who have a certain mindset. Will there always be a group who only want XYZ at some SEC school? Sure, but there will be women who join the other groups, new groups charter, and it will even out.

Yet again, real estate is the issue here, and that's a whole separate issue. Since we have moved all the alcohol to men's homes and therefore the RM issues when they close we can move in their homes :rolleyes:

My dad got a Facebook to see what it was about, but my mom refuses to. The only thing on his wall for the most part are greetings from high school classmates and the videos I send him from todaysbigthing. I keep my profile pretty clean no matter what, but him being able to see it is another incentive to. I don't want my parents in my social life and they don't want to be in mine. Now that I'm old enough to appreciate them, I'm glad they set boundaries and stayed parents...and never tried to be my friends.

What a positive spin on fraternity hijinx. Maybe the way to enforce RM issues is to have the sororities who WANT to come on campus be the party enforcement. HA!

It would be an excellent idea for everyone to think of who could be reading their post before hitting send. I know it has kept me from saying something snarky about my sisters (bio, not sorority) more than once. And the whole parent-friend thing I think is just icky. My oldest sister (speaking of being snarky) has that utterly co-dependent relationship with her daughter and it is destructive for both of them.

Actually, I didn't. You must have just read it wrong the first time. But either version is accurate in some cases!