Originally Posted by Hampton (Post 1926091)

The chapter has had the highest GPA at the school and the majors are mostly engineering, science and the top majors at Cornell- IR, Hotel, ILR. Don't worry, they are "idiots" who will out earn your Bubba State ass hands down.

And this site has way too many morons for me to "lurk" whatever the hell that is (no offense to you guys who don't around making judgments and assumptions and show they're cyber gangstas.)

And idiot, the kid who was sick was not sick from alcohol and it wasn't a Kappa Sigma "event". That's why the students wanted a hearing. Further Kappa Sigma isn't on the IFC in many schools and isn't recognized by a number of schools they are at. That was part of the NIFC beef. That's not to say it is wrong to take that approach, just pointing out you don't know jack. Your description of the process was wrong too, particularly missing a judiciary fee that was pretty steep.

The more I see the random douchebags they were dealing with (assuming you are a brother) the more I can see what they are up against. I'm sure you aren't reflective. Takes a couple of idiots to destroy a village.

Rather than reply to something that you have a problem with but have no knowledge of first hand, go confront that person who damaged you so badly that you reflexively worship authority, name call on the internet and can't think independently. Or slash your wrist. Either way I won't be at this site again but I still prefer you wrist slash.

Originally Posted by Hampton (Post 1925873)

Again, if you don't know what you are talking about you should not make insulting and definitive statements. I would not say that Barbie is a so-and-so because of her habit of taking a single phrase from a news story out of context and giving a single campus newspaper write absolute credence. I would not say that ghostwriter is a name calling so-and-so. I don't know you and anything I read has to be understood in that context. And just out of dignity I will not stoop to name calling even if they insult my family.

I just want to give a personal description from my conversations of what a few brothers at the Cornell chapter feel. I'm not going to follow up on this since publicizing the disagreement really doesn't do any good.

There was already a lot of dissatisfaction with Kappa Sig. Whether fair or not there was the perception that Kappa Sig isn’t interested in being at peer schools. The only remaining Ivy is Penn and there is serious talk underway there too about leaving. This isn't only an issue with the fraternity's lack of chapters at Ivies but also in the region and at schools of a certain academic stature. There was a feeling that the organized alumni network of the Cornell chapter was the only real benefit of affiliation, and that the national fraternity was lacking relative to other fraternities.

Guys in the chapter were pretty vocal about their view that the fraternity puts chapters on various forms of probation arbitrarily, and that it has an expensive process to return. (The probation came about because certain folks from the regional office allegedly saw perfectly respectable pictures with a couple of individuals holding red cups.) The feeling was that regional coordinators had very little usefulness except in penalizing the fraternity and that the attitude was negative, disrespectful and domineering. Brothers at that chapter told me that there is a push for numbers and money and that the national office kicks out chapters or kills colonies more than any fraternity. Realistically every national office has to be concerned with with growth, money and insurance costs but apparently some felt this was excessive.

As you probably know, Kappa Sig left the NIFC and not everyone was happy with that. Some in the fraternity felt that the standards and culture of NIFC fraternities was lost when the national fraternity left the organization and that related to the above issues. Again, let me stress that I have no judgments on the matter.

Every fraternity has internal discord and for Kappa Sig this is not one chapter as I understand it. Another recent incident involved the mother chapter at University of Virginia just last week. The Virginia chapter threatened to cut off access to a historical Kappa Sigma site on campus where the fraternity was founded. Many of the issues at Virginia I understand from word of mouth are the same as Cornell's.

The students at the Cornell chapter were weighing their options when this recent incident occurred.

The situation was as I understand it, was not irresponsible drinking but a medical situation. The students were forthright in saying that said student was drinking moderately. (The concern was that the student who has health issues might have had some trouble with an adverse reaction.) The national office had banned all drinking in a highly contentious exchange. Some of the brothers at Cornell felt that it had more to do with politics and some historical matters in the last decade within the fraternity.

For the Cornell chapter of Kappa Sig this incident also was contentious for another reason. The Dean at Cornell, a Mr. Apgar, of notoriety for his "zero tolerance" anti-hazing and anti-drinking speeches, was under the gun because Ivy League and national blogs (Gawker, Huffington Post, etc.) were running stories about two other fraternities (PKA and ADPhi) and the apparent double standards at Cornell towards parties and hazing.

Sources related to the national and on Ivy blogs that Cornell's PKA and ADPhi were perhaps hazing. Upon hearing this story, PKA (with an outlandishly egregious history of bad behavior) had a hearing and was kicked off campus despite strong support their alumni and national office support. The very wealthy and very well-connected brothers in ADPhi were put on an apparently lenient probation. A year earlier, another extremely wealthy and well-connected fraternity Psi Upsilon was put on probation by its own alumni housing corporation because of a string of publicized incidents but the university maintained recognition and the school allowed the fraternity to continue to operate even then for fear of upsetting any well connected individuals.

The anger towards Apgar is not just because of the hypocrisy here but because he apparently broke one of the schools important policies governing these issues. A well known policy exists at Cornell where students are urged to err on the side of caution take any sick student to the hospital and to report any suspected or possible drinking. This is done under the provision that the student(s) who was possibly drinking or those who accompanied the student or called emergency services will have enjoy strict confidentiality regarding any and all outside parties. Apgar took it upon himself to break the school's policy and to attribute the situation not to the individual possibly drinking but to all those who took the young men in to the hospital and by implication. The individuals pointed out that there was not even a hearing, and while they admit that the young man was likely drinking (as Apgar reported) they were not allowed as a group to explain their circumstances nor did Apgar even have the courtesy to tell them that he was going to break Cornell policy and report the incident to an outside organization. The outside organization in this instance was not the campus paper or IFC but the national fraternity. One can only assume that Apgar took this measure because he knew that in the scheme of things it would take away attention from him and that he could get away with it because Kappa Sigma neither had the weight as a chapter with the school or the support from the national fraternity. That was rather sad because what the Cornell Kappa Sigma chapter could say of itself was that it was one of the oldest and was known for being low-key and studious and virtually never had problems with the IFC or judiciary.

The men of the chapter did not even have a chance then to make a final decision and plans. And frankly, the whole thing had to be a bit humiliating as it underscored Kappa Sigma's position relative to other fraternities. That's just my take but I did find that he guys were really torn up about the whole thing and at least one guy said it really was the worst timing with exams coming up.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Kappa Sig at Cornell break off as a local or re-affiliate which is not an option for NIFC but Kappa Sig isn’t a NIFC fraternity. They are known as a smart, responsible and ambitious group of guys. It may be time to move on.

I am not saying that their views are valid and I will not get into an argument. They will figure something out. It just happens that I have relatives in the chapter and at another Kappa Sig, as well as several other fraternities. (Big family, lots of boys through the years, most of us in the military before college.) I've spend lots of time visiting and hearing their perspective. Regardless of anyone's perspective they will graduate from one of the best universities in the world and be successful and the chapter will figure out what's best for them. Far more than I meant to write. ;)

Originally Posted by Hampton (Post 1926091)

The chapter has had the highest GPA at the school and the majors are mostly engineering, science and the top majors at Cornell- IR, Hotel, ILR. Don't worry, they are "idiots" who will out earn your Bubba State ass hands down.

And this site has way too many morons for me to "lurk" whatever the hell that is (no offense to you guys who don't around making judgments and assumptions and show they're cyber gangstas.)

And idiot, the kid who was sick was not sick from alcohol and it wasn't a Kappa Sigma "event". That's why the students wanted a hearing. Further Kappa Sigma isn't on the IFC in many schools and isn't recognized by a number of schools they are at. That was part of the NIFC beef. That's not to say it is wrong to take that approach, just pointing out you don't know jack. Your description of the process was wrong too, particularly missing a judiciary fee that was pretty steep.

The more I see the random douchebags they were dealing with (assuming you are a brother) the more I can see what they are up against. I'm sure you aren't reflective. Takes a couple of idiots to destroy a village.

Rather than reply to something that you have a problem with but have no knowledge of first hand, go confront that person who damaged you so badly that you reflexively worship authority, name call on the internet and can't think independently. Or slash your wrist. Either way I won't be at this site again but I still prefer you wrist slash.

Originally Posted by Rightnyer (Post 1926360)

Yes, they broke the rules. But only a fool blindly submits to rules simply because they are rules. The 21 year old drinking age is stupid. As is punishing people for violating it. Punishments should be proportional to the offense. There are many people who argue that as long as you knew of the consequences, you were stupid for doing what you did to break the rules. But this could be applied to anything. An extreme example is cutting off the hands of thieves. The fact that something is a rule doesn't make it right.

Originally Posted by AOII Angel (Post 1926366)

Welcome back, Hampton. Flouncees can never stay away. I don't disagree that 21 year old drinking age is stupid, but it's the law. Take it up with your congressman. Until then, stupid or not, your chapter broke the terms of your probation. You knew the consequences of not following your probation. The purpose of probation is to improve on previous poor behavior and to prove that you can follow the rules (or at least effectively hide the breaking of such rules better than you did previously.) Apparently, as smart as all of you think you are, you just aren't smart enough to play the game. If you think this is rough, wait til you get out into the real world. Employers don't listen to your type of arguments anymore than Fraternity HQs or University Administrations do.

BTW, what is your definition of "Moderate" drinking? Just wondering what you think would be the cause of taking a person to the hospital other than alcohol poisoning when he has been "moderately" drinking? I don't buy the "he has a medical condition" BS...moderately drinking is equivalent of binge drinking and leads to alcohol poisoning. How do you know what a person can or cannot handle?

Originally Posted by Rightnyer (Post 1926472)

Haha, yeah, okay. I graduated from a school (not Cornell, and not Kappa Sigma) over 20 years ago. I have no more personal stake in this than you do. The fact is, you didn't refute any of my points. I argued that yes, in practicalities, they broke the rules. And employers make you follow their rules as well, unless of course, you are such a superstar that you can demand things be done your way.

But when we're discussing normative values; that is, what should be, not what is, coming back with a response as to what is does not really address my argument.

Originally Posted by Rightnyer (Post 1926472)

Haha, yeah, okay. I graduated from a school (not Cornell, and not Kappa Sigma) over 20 years ago. I have no more personal stake in this than you do. The fact is, you didn't refute any of my points. I argued that yes, in practicalities, they broke the rules. And employers make you follow their rules as well, unless of course, you are such a superstar that you can demand things be done your way.

But when we're discussing normative values; that is, what should be, not what is, coming back with a response as to what is does not really address my argument.

Originally Posted by Rightnyer (Post 1926472)

Haha, yeah, okay. I graduated from a school (not Cornell, and not Kappa Sigma) over 20 years ago. I have no more personal stake in this than you do. The fact is, you didn't refute any of my points. I argued that yes, in practicalities, they broke the rules. And employers make you follow their rules as well, unless of course, you are such a superstar that you can demand things be done your way.

But when we're discussing normative values; that is, what should be, not what is, coming back with a response as to what is does not really address my argument.

Originally Posted by Rightnyer (Post 1926360)

Yes, they broke the rules. But only a fool blindly submits to rules simply because they are rules. The 21 year old drinking age is stupid. As is punishing people for violating it. Punishments should be proportional to the offense. There are many people who argue that as long as you knew of the consequences, you were stupid for doing what you did to break the rules. But this could be applied to anything. An extreme example is cutting off the hands of thieves. The fact that something is a rule doesn't make it right.

Originally Posted by Hampton (Post 1927746)

Kappa Sig’s UCF is out. Knew nasty sphincts would hate. I hear just since last spring VCU, Oklahoma, Southern Miss, Arizona, N'western, list goes on. KS has monumental fail rate of chapters and colonies but they keep them coming, no support, no brotherhood. They said they want to axe TCU for good cause w the branding incident but they want that money from a big chapter a little more unless they’re sued.


I was at Foxfield when some Kappa Sigs among others from University of Virginia got busted (really legit guys, not going to talk about the offenses), and then were busted again which was publicized for drinking and hazing. Virginia supposedly told the national HQ to bite themselves if they wanted to access their sites at historic sites at UVA, and not have their mother chapter go independent. Somebody has gotta keep the HQ guys in money and make them look legit so that suspension got knocked down quickly.


Internal mail from the SEC (?) which they accidentally sent out is being passed around. I won’t mind posting but I don't want to cause problems for those guys in the fraternity. They leadership was calling students all kinds of names and it was obvious that they have a hostile regard of student “brothers”. They’re about money and numbers. Pretty soon either they can’t get even get troglodytes (looking at you Ghost Writer) or the leadership is pushed out. Speaking of troglodytes-


@“Dr. Phil” (WTF?) Let me tell you something you already know. You’re a homo. Not like an insult to gays homo, just a homo. Your chapter thinks so too except the loser homo you pal around with. You did join to buy friends. And the colored letter posts and saying $hit like “flounce” (wtf is that?) is homo, like the insult to gays. Man up and stop killing your parents.


@AOII, how can you live with your obesity and ugliness? Is it obvious because:

1) AOII is your screen name (meaning you have no life or personality and you are an AOII) You also joined to buy friends and they let you join so they would look skinnier and prettier to standing beside you. You turned a third tier fifth I’m sure.
2) You prob created that “Rightnyer” account to argue with yourself which is certifiable. It is obvious because the whole tone of that debate is like some rancid muff who cares. (So it could be “Ghostwriter” too.)
3) You live on this g-d- site. Look in the mirror, know that it will not change and even on the internets you are still fat and ugly, and do the deed.


@ MC Vito. Your name says it all. Psi Upsilon outside of Dartmouth and Cornell (bother of whom refuse to associate with any other chapter besides maybe Chicago) is a sorority, and an ugly, unpopular, second rate one at that. Psi Up is dead and gone you were the nail in the coffin.


@ Ghostwriter Were you around when the ringleaders Thomas Bishop, KevinKaplan, and E.L. Betz sued the Kappa Sig Foundation and John Birkelbach? Somebody told me about it and it occurred to me it would have drove you crazy deciding which authority figure to polish off. It's obvious your just a dead-weight snitch, douche and lackey breathing up all the fraternity man's air.


Now I can leave you to make up another account and pose as me or write some cat remarks or whine to the chief geek of your little world, you twatty douchebags. It will take you three seconds because you live online, between this and World of Warcraft. Don’t bother to argue because the thing is, I just don’t like you.

Originally Posted by Hampton (Post 1927746)

@ Ghostwriter Were you around when the ringleaders Thomas Bishop, KevinKaplan, and E.L. Betz sued the Kappa Sig Foundation and John Birkelbach? Somebody told me about it and it occurred to me it would have drove you crazy deciding which authority figure to polish off. It's obvious your just a dead-weight snitch, douche and lackey breathing up all the fraternity man's air.

Originally Posted by Hampton (Post 1927746)

Kappa Sig’s UCF is out. Knew nasty sphincts would hate. I hear just since last spring VCU, Oklahoma, Southern Miss, Arizona, N'western, list goes on. KS has monumental fail rate of chapters and colonies but they keep them coming, no support, no brotherhood. They said they want to axe TCU for good cause w the branding incident but they want that money from a big chapter a little more unless they’re sued.


I was at Foxfield when some Kappa Sigs among others from University of Virginia got busted (really legit guys, not going to talk about the offenses), and then were busted again which was publicized for drinking and hazing. Virginia supposedly told the national HQ to bite themselves if they wanted to access their sites at historic sites at UVA, and not have their mother chapter go independent. Somebody has gotta keep the HQ guys in money and make them look legit so that suspension got knocked down quickly.


Internal mail from the SEC (?) which they accidentally sent out is being passed around. I won’t mind posting but I don't want to cause problems for those guys in the fraternity. They leadership was calling students all kinds of names and it was obvious that they have a hostile regard of student “brothers”. They’re about money and numbers. Pretty soon either they can’t get even get troglodytes (looking at you Ghost Writer) or the leadership is pushed out. Speaking of troglodytes-


@“Dr. Phil” (WTF?) Let me tell you something you already know. You’re a homo. Not like an insult to gays homo, just a homo. Your chapter thinks so too except the loser homo you pal around with. You did join to buy friends. And the colored letter posts and saying $hit like “flounce” (wtf is that?) is homo, like the insult to gays. Man up and stop killing your parents.


@AOII, how can you live with your obesity and ugliness? Is it obvious because:

1) AOII is your screen name (meaning you have no life or personality and you are an AOII) You also joined to buy friends and they let you join so they would look skinnier and prettier to standing beside you. You turned a third tier fifth I’m sure.
2) You prob created that “Rightnyer” account to argue with yourself which is certifiable. It is obvious because the whole tone of that debate is like some rancid muff who cares. (So it could be “Ghostwriter” too.)
3) You live on this g-d- site. Look in the mirror, know that it will not change and even on the internets you are still fat and ugly, and do the deed.


@ MC Vito. Your name says it all. Psi Upsilon outside of Dartmouth and Cornell (bother of whom refuse to associate with any other chapter besides maybe Chicago) is a sorority, and an ugly, unpopular, second rate one at that. Psi Up is dead and gone you were the nail in the coffin.


@ Ghostwriter Were you around when the ringleaders Thomas Bishop, KevinKaplan, and E.L. Betz sued the Kappa Sig Foundation and John Birkelbach? Somebody told me about it and it occurred to me it would have drove you crazy deciding which authority figure to polish off. It's obvious your just a dead-weight snitch, douche and lackey breathing up all the fraternity man's air.


Now I can leave you to make up another account and pose as me or write some cat remarks or whine to the chief geek of your little world, you twatty douchebags. It will take you three seconds because you live online, between this and World of Warcraft. Don’t bother to argue because the thing is, I just don’t like you.

Originally Posted by Hampton (Post 1927746)

@ MC Vito. Your name says it all. Psi Upsilon outside of Dartmouth and Cornell (bother of whom refuse to associate with any other chapter besides maybe Chicago) is a sorority, and an ugly, unpopular, second rate one at that. Psi Up is dead and gone you were the nail in the coffin.


Don’t bother to argue because the thing is, I just don’t like you.