Originally Posted by sandiego_DUde (Post 1924787)

A lot of hope is put into each rush, but usually too much: people expect that the new guys will take over each semester and use it as an excuse to give up, as though they've "done their time" now that they're initiated.

Originally Posted by sandiego_DUde (Post 1924912)

got it! add $50 to dues at the beginning of the semester and everyone gets $1 back per "point." which events get points would be agreed upon weekly at meeting. this helps the house because i doubt ANYONE will get all $50 back, it's positive reinforcement instead of punishment, it doesn't affect the partying situation whatsoever... list goes on but you get it. i feel like this is exactly what i was looking for.

everyone has the same opportunity to get their money back and going to events is seen as a positive thing, rather than charging those who didn't show up. although it'll take some convincing to get the house to go for it, it's practically a no-lose situation: those who don't earn enough back still contribute to the house, just in a different way.

i appreciate the help from all above posters and i will continue to look for the root of the apathy but, as i'm sure you know, competition makes us all better and every house could use more money. i'll post again at the end of the fall semester regarding the effectiveness of this idea.

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 1924766)

I'd make a guess it has something to do with this attitude:You need balance between responsibility and fun. You need the social side to foster comraderie and a sense of in-it-togetherness. If it's all obligation, it's not worth the effort to participate.

Gusteau (and the others) are right -- you've created an us-against-them dynamic between the exec board and the chapter. To be honest, I'd resent the hell out of it if I were on the receiving end of it.

Originally Posted by sandiego_DUde (Post 1924912)

got it! add $50 to dues at the beginning of the semester and everyone gets $1 back per "point." which events get points would be agreed upon weekly at meeting. this helps the house because i doubt ANYONE will get all $50 back, it's positive reinforcement instead of punishment, it doesn't affect the partying situation whatsoever... list goes on but you get it. i feel like this is exactly what i was looking for.

everyone has the same opportunity to get their money back and going to events is seen as a positive thing, rather than charging those who didn't show up. although it'll take some convincing to get the house to go for it, it's practically a no-lose situation: those who don't earn enough back still contribute to the house, just in a different way.

i appreciate the help from all above posters and i will continue to look for the root of the apathy but, as i'm sure you know, competition makes us all better and every house could use more money. i'll post again at the end of the fall semester regarding the effectiveness of this idea.

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito (Post 1924929)

You have a good chance of people just refusing to pay.

Originally Posted by sandiego_DUde (Post 1924969)

Lastly, as mentioned above in my plan, partying will not be affected (now). In all fairness, I don't believe sororities are allowed to host parties so unless I'm wrong, I'm not understanding your stance on it. I know on my campus, every sorority has a certain number of community service hours required per member. Feel free to disagree but reputation is built (positively) by doing community service with sororities, in which they see a better side of us and are in a non-threatening situation.

Originally Posted by sandiego_DUde (Post 1924717)

The reason our social schedule is lacking is because it's the one thing we have to hold over people. We don't typically have parties unless we (the execs) feel that the house earned it, which only requires getting 50% of the house to 2 events a week. When people aren't willing to put in that little effort, there's no reason they should get to party.

Originally Posted by sandiego_DUde (Post 1924969)

We have the lowest dues of any house on campus, $500/semester and are aware of what every other house pays. We used to pay only $450 and the entire house voted a year ago to raise it $50 SIMPLY so we'd have more money. I can see this passing since we'd still be the lowest priced house, which is a big deal to lots of guys for some reason. Additionally, lots of guys talk about what they'd do if we had more money... we would.

AND, as SusySorostitute asked, "Why have these members not quit yet?" That's a good question, albeit one I cannot currently answer. At the very least, the proposition will open up a much-needed discussion and even if the most of the house doesn't want it to pass, I can easily persuade the execs to vote to pass it (I'm not exec so there would be at least 9/20 votes for it to pass when it is presented to the house). In response to your other question, I don't know whether they can pass something after the house voted against it. I kinda hope not.

Lastly, as mentioned above in my plan, partying will not be affected (now). In all fairness, I don't believe sororities are allowed to host parties so unless I'm wrong, I'm not understanding your stance on it. I know on my campus, every sorority has a certain number of community service hours required per member. Feel free to disagree but reputation is built (positively) by doing community service with sororities, in which they see a better side of us and are in a non-threatening situation.

Originally Posted by sandiego_DUde (Post 1924992)

I'm not at all saying my house is perfect; to the contrary, that's why I'm here. However, while I understand the outside reflection "not partying" gives off, and to be clear on that term we were on social probation all of last semester and we don't party as often as some guys would like but still at least 2x a month. Anyway, if people act like children, is there any reason they shouldn't be treated as such? Sad that in college that's my outlook, I know, but if we don't get our work done, it doesn't matter how much we party now if we lose our charter later. 33girl, you and I may not agree ever on certain things but please trust I'm trying to show you my side and see yours as well.

To tie up the partying issue, I'm sorry if I offended you but I felt as though it was a situation in which you were talking about something you couldn't understand, not being in a fraternity. I may have been too presumptuous and I'm sorry. No I don't see parties as threatening situations but you know, with the rumors/reality of what happens at SOME parties, it's understandable that people would often feel more at ease under other circumstances. From experience, I can tell you we've done quite well some semesters despite a lack of partying (14 man pledge class, twice). My experiences probably differ from yours but that's where I'm coming from.

The guys we don't want are the ones who only want to party anyway. If that's all we show them and that's what interests them, they'll join for the wrong reasons. It's not as popular since it's new but we do Principles Based Rushing, in which we show guys what we're about up front so we both have realistic expectations. We also are both more pleased with the outcome because nobody had false hopes. Obviously we still like to party, but within reason. Nobody wants to join an organization that's all work and no play, but we don't want an organization that's all play and no work. In fact, that's what we have now.

Originally Posted by sandiego_DUde (Post 1924996)

Perhaps I haven't successfully communicated my intentions. I'm sorry that's the impression you got; I want the best for my guys in both the short-term and long-term and I understand the balance of work and play.

You're right, Susy, we don't have socials or formal, which sucks, so we work with what we have. I don't personally see how building your reputation - at least somewhat - by doing community service is a bad thing. Sure we're known as the "good guys" on campus and we all know what they say about good guys, but I'd rather people think that of me than other things. And yes, at my school we're trying to send the Greek system in a new direction. After the drug bust, the entire Greek system has suffered and we've all had to change a lot to keep afloat. Community service has become an almost "popular" thing.