The big issue is that many states let students into schools WITHOUT vaccines if they have "religious exemptions" ... meaning parents who are opposed to vaccinations and sign paperwork which states they do not believe in vaccinations, be it because of religious or ideological beliefs or even just beliefs against vaccinations for non-religious beliefs. It's not the same thing but states let it slide as if it is ... if you don't have the rubella or polio vaccine, you can (in most states) go anyway to public school if you have "religious" objections to the vaccine.

Not to hijack, but what religions besides Christian Scientist have beliefs against vaccination?

Alright Greekchat legal scholars, here's one for ya, and this is as good a thread as any to ask this.

I have a client who is a healthcare worker who is being required by her employer, a private hospital, to get the swine flu vaccine as a condition for future employment. She is afraid of the side effects and doesn't want the vaccine. What the hell kind of legal argument does she have?

I would never take a vaccine for something like the flu. We'ver rarely ever gotten it in the house, this year we did with the little kids, we dealt with it and moved on, they missed 3 days of school. Why should they be forced to get vaccinated for what is in most cases, a hyped up cold that goes away without much issue for the majority of people? We don't lilke getting poked and prodded for every little thing.

We didn't do chicken pox either (for the little ones, because the vaccine was too late for me), because in our minds that's just something kids should get and get over with b/c it's far more dangerous as an adult and we do not (as a trend in my family) get it more than once. Some things like MMR, hepatitis B(?), (typical stuff & usual school requirements) etc. we do get because it's in our best interest, but not things that only typically require a few "down days".

Hmm. Sounds interesting. Off top, what kind of precedent is out there?

Most don't, as far as I know, but you don't have to prove religious belief against vaccines to claim a religious exemption. In most states, it's just a form requiring a signature from a parent stating that religious beliefs prevent a child from receiving vaccines.

Babypink - I think you're totally right. If you or your children don't have an underlying condition that would prevent it being a hyped-up cold, you shouldn't worry about a vaccine. I look at it exactly the same way you do, despite having an underlying condition. If you're overall a healthy person you shouldn't need the flu shot! My family got it when I lived at home because I've had severe asthma since I was little, and if I get sick I have issues with breathing and end up in the hospital. Now that I don't live at home, they don't bother - if my otherwise healthy little brother gets the flu he's sick for a few days and then is totally fine.

Kevin - my gut instinct would be that because she already has contracted employment (at least, your post seems to imply that?), to impose additional strictures of this type wouldn't be permissable? I could very easily be totally wrong, though.

nada. I'm looking for innovative arguments.

I'm no legal scholar, but could it possibly be a human rights issue? The facility is attempting to force an employee to undergo precautionary (not necessary) medical treatment. There may not have been serious side effects in the clinical trials, but the thing is still experimental in nature. Plus, everyone reacts individually. If she has a bad reaction to the vaccine or the preservative serum, her health could be in serious danger and the company may be liable if its coercion left her vulnerable to that possibility. Perhaps putting her at that risk would potentially violate an employee's right to a safe and healthy work environment? At the very least, it undermines her dignity and personal freedom.

It's a stretch, but I'm sure you could bs it into a good argument. As far as precedence, apparently there were deaths associated with a swine flu vaccine back in 1976 that people are bringing up now. The other side would no doubt bring up cases of healthworkers who died after contracting H1N1 so you'd have to be prepared to defend against that.

I'm not a legal scholar, but I have worked in the health care industry my entire career. I know that there are certain things that are required either on hire or annually, including the MMR vaccine. During the employment physical you are tested for antibodies against mumps, rubella and rubeola and if you don't have them, you have to get a vaccine before you can return to work. I believe they've added chicken pox to that regime. We also have to get annual TB tests or, if there is some sort of issue with the TB test, then a chest x-ray to check for TB. They strongly encourage everybody to get a flu vaccination annually and are strongly encouraging the H1N1 vaccine also, but we can sign a paper that says we refuse. If you refuse, you aren't eligible for worker's compensation if you have contact with H1N1 patients at work and get it.

I am under the impression that the MMR, chicken pox and TB thing are all required of hospitals under public health codes and JCAHO accreditation requirements. That might be a place to look to start to look for information on whether the hospital has a choice in this or not.

Interesting article that may give you something to help... http://www.naturalnews.com/027313_Ne...alth_care.html

Yeah, I've followed the New York cases fairly closely. Unfortunately, in my case, the hospital is private, so we can't allege civil rights violations because to do that, you have to have some sort of state action. Legally speaking, I'm on very weak ground.

On the bright side of things, I think she has a really good argument for a worker's compensation claim if she contracts Guillian Barré after getting the shot.

It does sound like an interesting issue - I was listening to one of the programs on NPR (it might have been "Talk of the Nation"), and there were a couple of callers from the healthcare industry who were talking about how they didn't want to get the shots.

Not knowing OK comp law at all (and not at all meaning this to be any sort of legal advice), I don't see how she DOESN'T have a comp claim for side effects from the shot. That's coming from someone who deals a lot in insurance law from the insurance company perspective.

Well, my cousin is Christian Missionary Alliance, and he just told me yesterday that he's against them. Then again he also probably thinks Obama is putting something in them to turn us all gay. I love him dearly but we are not on the same side of the political fence, to put it mildly.

I got a flu shot last year and felt awful for 2 days afterwards - everyone did who got them. I haven't this year, because my insurance doesn't cover it and I'm not in big groups of people. I'm snuffling to beat the band right now but I don't think it's pigger wigger flu.

Ummm...ewww? It's not like getting the swine flu--or any flu--is inevitable. I have to get the vax because I have asthma. I get the seasonal flu vaccine as soon as it's available and now I'm just cooling my heels until the H1N1 vaccine is available.

I wish I would have gotten the chickenpox as a kid or at least the vaccine. My mother worked very hard at making sure me and my sister did NOT get it. Her reasoning wasn't anything other than finding it disgusting. Yes, seriously. So, instead of our getting it when we were in grade school and taking a week off from school when it had no major impact, my sister got it when she was 21 and I got it when I was 15. We were both extremely sick.

Having to take 2 weeks off from school during PSAT time=horrible. Having to take 2 weeks off from college and not being able to work=ridiculous.

384 students out of a total population of 2200 were absent from school yesterday. I'm sure that not everyone was diagnosed with H1N1 (especially when the drs that most of us use didn't even test) but every child my kid knows personally has the exact same symptoms. My son rarely gets sick but this has just wiped him out.

Some pediatricians around here are telling parents not to bring their kids to the doctor unless they are *definitely* sick, so they won't catch anything in the waiting room.