I'd like to see a system where panhellenic makes up a list of all pnms released from recruitment after each round and distributes the list to the houses. Any house that wanted to give a released pnm a second chance could invite that pnm to the next party without counting her against release figures, and would be free to extend her a bid without counting her in quota. That way, houses are never forced to invite or bid any pnm they don't want, but they have an incentive to re-invite pnms who might have slipped through the cracks due to shyness, lack of connections, whatever.

The last time I suggested this, someone pointed out that sneaky pnms might collude with their #1 house and deliberately be rude at every house in order to be cut, with the understanding that #1 would invite them back as an "extra." I can see that as a risk in small systems, but would it really happen at a place like UT? Wouldn't actives in the other sororities talk, realize what was going on, and report it?

From my understanding. Every group at UT pledged quota or quota +. I think that is awesome and proves to me that early release really works.
Every group at UT summer rushes. How can that be "dirty" if everybody does it? It is a throw back to the days when parties were invite only ( no open houses ) and there were town parties during the summer to meet the girls.
I doubt that more than 50 girls (and that is stretching it) were released from every chapter by pref and most of those were grade issues. Most girls who remained bidless, dropped out with chapters remaining in the mix and did not maximize their options.
Our UT chapters would LOVE to have larger pledge classes, if for no other reason $$$$. But they are told by Panhellenic how many they half to cut after every party.
It's not personal.

Why are new member classes smaller at UT than at other similar sized schools/greek systems? Or to clarify my question.. wy is quota set so low?

I don't recall how many sororities are at UT, but I wouldn't call pledge classes of 45-50+ small. University of Washington, which has 16 sororities and is the biggest greek system on the West Coast, had a quota of I believe 32 last year, and that was an increase from the previous couple of years. To me, 30-50 seems like the perfect size!

UT doesn't set quota until the last minute. How many go to preference, I think. If girls would maximize their options, quota would have been somewhere around 55+ because they don't and many drop out it is much lower. There are 13 sororities that go through formal recruitment at UT. 800 + signed up but not that many show up.
UT has a small greek system comparative to it's size.

Thanks for the info. I guess with the way people write about UT rush here I thought they had Alabama sized numbers sign up for rush. :p

You know, the thing about UT is that in reality, the campus is REALLY liberal - the city theme is "Keep Austin Weird", so while Greek life is a big deal for those who want to be a part of it, it is a pretty small deal for the rest of the students on campus.

Then, you factor in the effect that the top 10% rule has had on the make up of the student body - back in my day, there were "feeder schools" that sent hundreds of kids to UT every year, and they were the type of kids that were likely to be part of the Greek system. Now, many of those types of kids just aren't going to UT. The opening post mentioned Memorial and Stratford - where 15 years ago, 25% of the graduating classes of those schools might be headed to UT, now it's closer to 10%, and some of those kids just aren't interested in Greek life at all!

At Stratford (which jokingly in the past has been called Fratford), most kids who are interested in Greek life are going to A&M, either because they couldn't get into UT or because most of their friends are going to be aggies. My son, who was a rush captain this year, couldn't believe how few guys were coming to UT - when he graduated, around 8 guys pledged fraternities out of probably 25 guys who went to UT. This year, he knows of 2 guys who pledged - that's it! Compare that to over 20 guys who are pledging at A&M from the highschool.

UT is just changing, and Greek life will have to change with it.

I also asked s sorority sister from UT why greek life was so small compared to the size of the school. She explained to me that UT is accepting more and more overseas students as well. These students are not typically interested in greek life. Some of them are not the traditional college student age either.

I always had that impression also. And being an Alabama alum, I guess I think all the big southern schools are like us in that respect.

I went to Texas and I understand where you're coming from, and the disappointment that happens when you don't get into the sorority you want. When I was there, they had just started automatic placement, and I believe that they were to have now, so that all girls can find a home with one of their choices. With cross cutting, sometimes, it does happen where a girl does not make it all the way through, and I apologize if that happens to you. It does get quite competitive, and it is hard, because a lot of chapters are required to take so many legacies a year, and are faced at that time with who to take and how to pick and choose. Also, with quota and ceiling, there are only so many girls chapters are allowed to take. A lot of sorority rushing is about who you know, and who you meet, and I'm sad at Texas that you had a rough go of it. It is an extremely difficult place to rush. Sometimes it's about where you live, sometimes it's about what you're wearing, sometimes it's about who you know and sometimes, it's about nothing at all.

Might I suggest, if you're interested in getting involved socially, look at joining Texas Spirits, Texas Lassos, Wrangler Sweethearts or Disch Falk Diamonds. Each of these are ladies only groups that are involved with sporting/social events around UT. While some of these spots are occupied by girls in sororities, these groups reach out to girls who are Independent as well. Take a look.

Quote:

Originally Posted by srmom (Post 1842570) Honestly, I don't know. Maybe the reason we are reading the "dirty rushing" allegations on GC is because these girls have done some research, have read the threads, know that "silence rules" exist, and that there are rules against contact.

"Dirty Rushing" does happen all the time, but I have seen too, the heartbreak of girls being told all summer and even going through rush that they were definitely going to be a member of XYZ sorority, only to be cut at the end. For me, being here at UT, I understood "dirty rush" as one of two things: 1) a secret meeting between PNM's and 2) them (other chapters) rushing a girl that you want. According to Panhellenic at Texas (and this was 8 years ago, so if I'm off, let me know), "dirty rushing" was talking to any PNM after the first of the calendar year in which the PNM would be going through rush. They felt this didn't give anyone a fair advantage and wanted all the girls to start off on the right footing. The Greek system here, (usually in the spring) has an "unofficial" recruiting process entitled "Round-Up Weekend." Here, this is where seniors who are interested in the process come and stay with friends, and go to fraternity parties, and learn a little about Greek life. Technically, it's off the record, and so a lot of people turn their heads with the younger crowd here.

As for legacies, here is one thing I have learned at UT: Everyone seems to have a legacy from somewhere. The streamline for Texas, especially in the bigger sororities are a duel/triple legacy, and many of those sister-mother combination; not your cousin, or stepmom, but true lineage, and also, if that legacy was part of that chapter at UT. I will tell you being out of state, and your lineage being from a different school...well, from what I've seen means very little. Because the chapters do not have to fill (and don't) with legacies, usually only about 10-20 girls (depending on quota size) are taken from legacies. The remainder is filled by new women to continue chapter growth by creating new lines. Make sense? I really thought though with automatic placement, that every girl was to find a home, but I know that's only if they go all the way through Pref.

Greek life has shrunk incredibly since I was there. In '97, 1000+ girls were signed up, now it's steadying around the 700-800 mark. I think, taking provisional away during the summer, has indeed changed the rushing process as well. As far as I know, houses are still getting a "drop off" list from Panhellenic once rush is over and from there are able to snap bid off of it, but again, if they are already at ceiling (which used to be around 200 or so members when I was there), it's irrelevant. They can go up and over quota, but aren't able to pick up any one else if they're maxed out.
Unfortunately, we're not able to take everyone we want to.

I think it's great that A&M is finally growing in the Greek system. When my husband was there, he told me how small the system was, and how overlooked it was, because the main focus of the school is so much about the traditions of the Core. While that might be a silly arguement now (as generations change), I do agree UT's admission standards are ridiculous. However, I think that A&M also does cater to a specific type of student and, maybe half of those students are what you would consider a typical candidate for rush. UT has always been known, in this state, for being diverse, while A&M primary has a conservative, anglo student. I think that is why I went through rush at Texas, is because I was attempting to find people similiar to myself and background in a large, melting pot of a school It will be interesting to watch the shift over the next 10 years and see if the Greek system in Aggieland starts to rival the sytem of Texas.

As far as fraternities, I think it's so different because, unlike the ladies who go through a one time formal recruitment process, guys can pledge each semester. Where being a sophomore can hurt you in a sorority, fraternities don't care. I'd be interested to see at Texas, what percentage of guys come back around a semester later, or even the next year, when they get to meet the guys in these chapters.

I do not think this is accurate. Can someone else from UT weigh in?

That was my reaction too. I called my cousin, who is a UT alumni, and she knew nothing about it either. However, she was not in a (shudders to say) Big-Six chapter.

Sorry ladies, let me clarify: I'll use my roommate's chapter (though I won't name it). They have so many legacies, that it's ...well, it's an understanding in the house that they have let's say...10 spots they want to fill with "outside" girls. So, they take, 40 legacies, and have the remaining spots for new girls. Now, they'll vary that depending on what they see, and who goes through, and likeability, etc.

This isn't a panhellenic thing, done through Texas, but is done from house to house. Now, it might just be THEIR house, I don't know. I'd be interested in talking with some girls from other chapters to see if this is the case. Maybe that is not the case for others; maybe others take all legs. I'd like to know this too, as it helps the recruiting process for everyone.

Sorry for the confusion.

Really? I'm surprised they would use up that many spots for legacies. I would have thought it would be a 40/60 split or something like that. I know it's more along those lines in our chapters that are heavy with legacies.