Nobody enforces everything.

And drinking is just one case (coincidentally, if you assume one enters college at 18 and graduates at 22, unless their parties are for seniors only - which they're not - they are violating the underage laws by 75%). I also know of several chapters where the advisors and consultants know about hazing. It's just the way it is. Scav hunts may be considered hazing, but often people look the other way.

Even payments of dues often come in after deadline.

The list can go on and on.

-Rudey

So are you saying this is ok?

I am saying it's not black and white. It's not right or wrong.

You can say good or bad but those are personal/moral judgements on your part, and nothing more or factual.

-Rudey

See I disagree--if its against the law, then it is pretty black and white. Just because someone chooses not to act on it or enforce it, doesn't change that.

The law is interpreted.

-Rudey

There were 11 girls total in my pledge class. I go to a rather small school so a few of the girls knew each other already, but since I was a year older then most of them I went into the sorority knowing nobody. That was scary in itself. The hazing aspect of joining DID bring us together. During especially bad nights we would all gather afterwards before starting our projects and talk or listen to each other. Since we were all hazed equally no "cliques" formed in our group and there was no resentment towards the sisters. The night we got in was amazing. Such a huge rift was relieved and it was so amazing seeing the older sisters' attitutes change so quickly. There was not a dry eye in the entire house.

I guess, in Your mind and ours is what is hazing?

It may in Your mind have brought You and Your Sisters together, but a lot depends on what type of hazing.

Just need to make one comment here. While hazing may create a bond between pledge brothers/sisters, it can distance the chapter from the national organization as a whole. Last year, a good friend of mine pledged a national organization on his campus (NIC). This fraternity had the reputation for hazing the most out of a campus on which hazing generally was pretty prevalent. He became best friends with all of his pledge brothers and after he got in, he became a diehard brother of the fraternity. Something shady happened with his chapter. He has been in for about a year now, however, neither he, nor any of his pledge brothers have been initiated. I asked him to see his fraternity pin and he said he never got one. Since he pledged, he has had a little brother, yet he was never initiated. I didn't wanna make a big deal out of this with him, but it seemed like either his chapter thought that they were above the national fraternity as a whole, or they just couldn't get their act together.

That's unfortunate, but what does that have to do with hazing? Personally, that's partially your friends fault for pledging a fraternity that most likely didnt even have its charter. Distance ourselves from Nationals??? Oh, God NO!!:rolleyes: Nationals may as well be some sleazy insurance company, seems like all they do is take our money and provide insurance.

I'm willing to bet it wasn't the drink 'till you puke kind. I also bet it wasn't the type that physically beat them, etc. That type of hazing pretty much screws the rest of us that "haze" responsibly.

I bet it was the type that put them in a difficult situation, and they probably had to overcome it by working together.
(sarcasm)Maybe they even broke a sweat, or actually got their hands dirty(sarcasm)

Some greek organizations still make you EARN your letters. Those are the type that have members that are proud to wear their letters because they had to work their ass off to get them.

There are a lot of ways to "earn" your letters without being hazed.

It's not necessary to participate in illegal activities to be proud of what you are.

Hazing doesn't need to include pledges being beaten, but it shouldn't just be stupid little projects and ice breakers the whole time. I agree that you have to "EARN YOUR LETTERS." If all I had to do was sew and sing songs to get into a sorority, then there wouldn't have been any thrill in choosing to join in the first place. You can do those types of things with any of your friends.

I carefully read what EVERYONE had to say before I decided to speak my mind. So here's the disclaimer: My organization does not haze nor haveI been hazed in any way. I would go through my new member process again if I had to. Now having said that, I ask this REALLY what is hazing?

As an undergrauate, I dormed with some ladies that belonged to another GLO and there was always a room filled with arts and crafts. The pledges mad cute little name tags adorned with glitter and hung them from our door every week. Is that hazing?

Standing up in a room full of sisters and greeting them by name one by one... is that hazing?

I've also heard of pledges interviewing active members of the chapter, and being quizzed on the answers later. The interviews I don't think are bad. The quizzes... uncomfortable, but is that hazing?

Is calling some one your "BIG" hazing? Do you know that some orgs on my campus couldn't refer to their Bigs as such in fear that they would be brought up on charges of hazing. It would appear that calling someone a "big" or "little" denotes superiority/ inferiority. Guess I should walk into work and call my manager "buddy" cuz other wise, i'm gettin hazed at work!

My org, does not PLEDGE. That's right, it's a new member process. Because the word in itself is a form of hazing.

Let me ask you this, do youthink that in the effort to protect such young minds we have lost ours? I mean I pledged to a flag every morning in my younger years at school was that being hazed? I had pop quizzes all the time to make sure I knew my class work, was that being hazed?

SCAVENGER HUNTS ... that's hazing too? We are really taking all the fun out of pledging and that's what it is pleding. You are pledging yourself to an organization. And you should develop certain skills in this process so that youcan be an asset when you "cross" into the greek world. We are tyring to be so PC with everything we are turning our precious organizations into clubs and at the same time we are throwing away sacred traditions.

Just because I have a paddle doesn't mean someone hit me with one. And now, we can't even post pics online holding them.

On the other hand: it is hazing to give someone a pledge name that is insulting. It is hazing to touch the pledges if it's not to give them hug or a handshake. Shame on you if you've ever used profane language around them, force them to injest anything, or make them feel like they aren't good enough.

Pledging is supposed to be fun Paddles, pledgenames and all. Get the jerks and leave the little guys alone:mad:

Congratulations on one of the finest posts I have ever seen on GreekChat!

Thank You for your insight and input.

Good post.


I do think there is a big difference between sorrorities and fraternities as far as "hazing", and how much & what type is neccesary.