I disagree with a lot of what shinerbock has to say but he is generally classy and not vulgar. I do appreciate his honesty.

Shiner, so you know.. mods are only mods in certain areas of the site and are not generally "above" entering a fray.

/I'm a Voltaire kind of person though (even if he didn't actually say it)
//blah blah don't agree with you blah blah defend your right to say it

Amen, SisterGreek.

I'm referring to the NPC sororities that shinerbock was referencing himself. They hold no interest for me. I'm not sure where I made any mention of getting drunk and meeting boys. You're projecting your own assumptions onto me. What I'm talking about is the function and activities of the sororities themselves. That's not something I'm looking for.

IMO use or nonuse of profanity has nothing to do with class - some of the biggest racists/sexists/etc on earth never curse, and I certainly wouldn't call them classy.

You didn't SAY you had a low opinion of people on here, but everything you post boils down to desperate begging for people to say "why yes shinerbock, you're SO right. The South and Southern fraternity chapters are all that matters, anything else is lame and stupid and a wannabe, I'm going to turn in my pin and jump off a bridge now." I have no issue with the fact that you believe differently. I have issue with the fact that you think everyone else should believe the same way. If that wasn't the attitude you meant to put across, you really need to go back and edit the majority of your posts.

Let's all remember that Shinerbock is just saying what he has seen and grown up around. That's the South that he has seen. I personally disagree with him but since I also live in the South and while it's not like that where I live or where I went to school I know it is still like that in some areas. Sad but true. :(

Just a few things I've noticed.

1) If the criteria you are using to label all IFC and NPC groups as "White" or "Historically White" because they were founded at a school during a time when non-whites were not allowed to attend, then talk to me when your group celebrates it's sesquicentennial because until then, you have no valid argument.

2) To look at the statistics of minority representation in IFC/NPC chapters as "this group is <20% non-white, thus it discriminates" is nothing more than manipulating fact to suit your argument. What you should be looking at is a much more complex calculation. Consider this: By race, University of ____ has a minority representation of 40%. At said school, there are 10 IFC chapters, 10 NPC chapters, 10 NPHC sororities, and 10 NPHC fraternities. Each group has a membership of 50 which totals the greek community as 10% of the entire population of the school. (2000 greeks, 20,000 total pop.) For simplicity's sake, lets say all 50 members of all 20 NPHC chapters are black. By those numbers, the minority percantage of greeks is already above the school as a whole even before you take into account the minority percentage of IFC and NPC chapters. So by saying that minorities are under-represented in the greek community because the average minority representation in IFC chapters is only 20% is just plain ignorant.

3) How can anyone define themself with a single characterization? I find this impossible to understand. Likewise, how can you define a fraternity by a single characterization? Did it ever occur to those of you who call IFC groups "white fraternities" that we get offended not because you called us white, but rather that we got offended because you took not only me and my brothers but also every other member of an IFC group and boiled us all down to a single characteristic? My fraternity can be described as nothing but "Theta Chi," and I would ask that you please respect that.

OK, you said you had no reason at all to join the orgs shiner was referring to (which I think we all agree are probably NPC orgs at Southern schools). However you said the above were two reasons you joined your org. I would venture to guess that those two reasons are also on the minds of many NPC PNMs - be they white or non-white, ugly or pretty, Northern or Southern.

I do apologize for putting words in your mouth in reference to beer drinking and boys. So not to cause more confusion, I'd be interested to know what it is those women were looking for in their orgs that you were "not at all" interested in?

First to 33...I favor southern greek life, just as you dislike it. It is preference. Of course I think it is better than every other system. I don't buy into the whole "well I hate that, but we're all equally good" thing. I mean, I went to Auburn, do you think I'm gonna go "well, I hate Alabama, but they're just as good." Obviously not.

Now to everyone else, I appreciate that you guys see what I'm saying. However it gets annoying when people act like, "well he's just going on what he's seen." In spite of what my conservative ideals and southern pride may cause you think, I'm not by any means a sheltered person. I have friends from every walk of life, have traveled all over the country, and both have shown me valuable things. HOWEVER, I simply enjoy my life the way it is. Most of my white southern friends are incredibly intelligent and cultured. So while I appreciate the attempts at understanding where I'm coming from, it does get a little annoying when I get these pats on the head, as if one day I'll experience the big world.

Who are you directing this at? I'm not sure who said anything like what you mention in #1. As for #2, I think it has been established that MCGLO members appreciate that NPC/IFC orgs fill a niche different from ours so that our members are truly at home with us. And, #3, you've got shinerbock in here more than implying that he prefers an all-white chapter. Other than that, I'm not going to get into the "historically white org" argument because it leads to name calling. But, I will say that I don't go around here talking about "white fraternities." Have you seen that phrase used excessively in this thread?

implying that I prefer an all white chapter...

No, I consistantly imply that I prefer a chapter which fits my interests and shares my ideals.

I would just like to point out that this is impossible, as there are only 5 NPHC fraternities and 4 NPHC sororities.

As far as the remainder of the discussion in this thread, I could refer you to the websites of several BGLOs, AGLOs, LGLOs, and MCGLOs which would indeed educate you as to how the generalizations made here are pretty much ridiculous, but I doubt those of you with your opinions set in stone (about how pointless/unpopular/etc. these types of orgs are) would even look.

If you do indeed choose to take a look, one particular example is www.sigmalambdagamma.com - under Infrastructure, Sorority Entities, and then Chapters, you can find the individual chapter websites, all of which outline the diversity and purpose of the organization. Also on the national website, the Mission Statement, the Vision, and other goals/achievements can be found by perusing the links at the top of the page.

I said they were two of many reasons, specifically, "a number of reasons including..." I'm not suggesting that MC sororities and NPC sororities don't have things in common. Certainly we do! Let me ask you a question to help answer yours...why did you join Chi Omega and not Theta Nu Xi?

You state that you want a chapter that fits your interest and shares your ideals. The implication is above and beyond that. And, I know that you've said you wouldn't mind a non-white member who was like you.

I don't really understand what you are talking about, nor what point you are trying to make........but we celebrated our 150th this year at Alabama and my chapter will celebrate its 125th in 2007....and I would definitely be open to saying that we are a historically white organization.

Yes, I can read. Which is why I said in my post: "you said the above were two reasons you joined your org". I did not say they were the only reasons.

Why didn't I join your org? Well, firstly, they were not on my campus so I was not exposed to it. MCGLOs weren't yet too big when I was in school. Also, my mother is a Kappa, so I was familiar with NPC Greek life though was not "groomed" for it. I went through rush to see if NPC life at my school might be right for me, and I found that Chi Omega was what I wanted to be a part of.

I have no issue with MCGLOs. I agree they also have their niche.

However, you still have not answered my question:
what it is those women were looking for in their NPC orgs that you were "not at all" interested in?