I just watched the RBG movie "On the Basis of Sex". It was inspiring how she fought for fair treatment. This tier system won't change until someone initiates change with similar bravery.

If Panhellenic voted to implement random pairs perhaps it could happen. Then again, I wonder if fraternities were "forced" to invite certain chapters over if they would be gracious hosts. Perhaps a "top tier" chapter and a "bottom tier" chapter invited at the same time would be as eye opening for these men as it was for ForeverRoses when she met the chapters' recruitment chairs.

I could swear I read last year about some campus where they did this type of pairing of sororities with a fraternity and it came off fairly well . We didn't have matched pairs on my campus - we had mixers with every house and fraternities did the same with every sorority.

As for the girls who SIP'd, it's sad because we know many girls accept a bid to a house they're unsure about and then fall in love with their sisters and sorority and later wouldn't change a thing. I've seen that with girls who went to two pref parties and got the house "they didn't want" and gave it a shot and loved it.

I'm not sure how to change this mentality because from what I hear from friends (with daughters in college) and read on here, it seems like more and more girls either SIP or don't show up to the house they got a bid to - or they do accept a bid to the "house they didn't want" and then drop out in a matter of weeks without really giving it a shot. I don't recall that happening much when I was in school but then that was many decades ago.

I think we didn't hear about it because back in the day, girls could cut groups they didn't want so they were never even at prefs (much less Bid Day) for unwanted groups.

One thing I have learned thru the years as an advisor is how important it is for alums to stay up-to-date on sorority policies. Today's rush is not what is was when these moms were in school. The number of legacies per chapter( for a middle aged or old chapter) sometimes exceeds the quota the chapter can pledge. Legacy policies also change. What was considered a legacy back in the day may have changed. It "may" increase th PNM's chance if the legacy connection has remained active as an alum.

I’m probably stepping on many toes in saying this since I was not part of a sorority and am just going by my daughter’s experiences, but - I think we are expecting a lot from 18 year olds who are already making a major life change by heading off to college. Perhaps this isn’t true for schools like Indiana with recruitment happening after a full semester, but my daughter - despite her level-headed initial approach (open mind! trust the process! don’t listen to tent talk!) - was swayed by the other girls going through recruitment, the stress and the uncertainty. As has been said on this site a million times, the PNMs have so little control, and when added to all the other changes in their lives, it all combines to send them scrambling back to what they “know” - which is that it’s better to be popular than not. In the end, my kiddo ended up in exactly the right sorority for her and this year, on the other side, found herself talking to the young lady who would eventually become her little about this exact same thing. She told her little that it is easy to be swayed by popularity and rankings and the things that mattered in high school, but that it was time to make decisions based on other factors, such as sisterhood and involvement and such. But, as an 18 year old freshman? She did not have that maturity, which was earned through a year of experience.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that expecting the recruiting class to “rise above” might not be 100% reasonable. As a side note, my daughter ended up in her “second choice” and it was more than a little stressful for the first week or so for this mama before she declared all would be well. Thank goodness for wine. ��

This whole "tier" thing is nonsense. Look each Fraternity and each Sorority are different. It seems the "tiers" are only based on parties, not the true makeup of the group -- he who parties the hardest is "top" tier. The reality is some houses (both boys and girls) are party animals -- think Animal House. Others are more grade focused. Some have lower key parties. Some do good philanthropy. Etc. etc. etc. Unfortunately (or fortunately) like minds tend to sick together. You can't pair the academics with the party animals -- it won't be all that much fun. Find your place and go with it.

To answer the question though, my kid who is in a "top" house paired up with a "lower" house to run a charity event and even had other schools involved. It worked out pretty good. Would they "party" with each other? Probably not because they are different types of people. By the way, Kid's house raised the most money -- so I guess they are top. :)

So I am going to throw this out there. I was very hesitant to steer my kid to my former house. He's had enough of "when I was there" -- actually both mom and dad. I wanted it to be his college experience. It's hard, but he's finding his way.

Most of us found our "home" at 18. There were some girls "in the know" about the most popular chapters, but for most of us? We just went with the flow. As a teacher I have seen an upsurge in parents wanting to make it all right, rather than letting it be a learning and potential growth experience. Not all parents, but many. Life has many joys, but there are also disappointments. We need to be able to accept that and deal with both.

To any parents whose daughter may have been released from recruitment or dropped recruitment and still wants to give Greek Life a chance--at least one chapter will be doing informal recruitment. I say this because at least one chapter already has some stuff up related to informal recruitment. If your daughter is serious, she should contact Panhellenic and/or the Greek Life office, and also keep an eye out on social media.


This makes me so happy! I'm a few years out from graduation but it always feels good to hear about your chapter doing great! :)

I'm also such a huge advocate of Greek Life based on my overall positive experience. I truly think that if more IU women were open-minded, they would reap the benefits of being in a sorority, and Greek Life as a whole would be stronger.

Plus, my best friends at IU were in some of the "less desirable" chapters, and I got to know their sisters pretty well and they were some of the sweetest and most genuine girls. Don't get me wrong, I loved my sisters as well, but I could have fit in at multiple chapters and the experience is truly what you make of it. Especially with the majority of chapters having houses now, the experience at any chapter should be pretty similar across the board.

And even though one chapter may not have a house, that doesn't mean that the experience is any less worth it--a house doesn't define who people are, the friendships they'll make, the leadership positions they'll take on, the service they'll provide the community, the challenges they'll tackle together, teamwork they will learn and bonds they'll create through being sisters, or the alumni connections and friendships they'll have throughout their lives as part of a GLO and a sisterhood.

Truly, all of the chapters at IU are amazing. /rant

Fraternities are a whole different animal, and one I have little knowledge to speak on. I was speaking of sororities.

You're not stepping on toes (IMO at least), and I agree with you. I think it's more that we as more mature and seasoned sorority women realize that our experiences are more similar than anything else and *hope* that 18/19 year old women will "rise above" the tent talk and "popularity" BS, even though we also realize that this is hard for 18/19 year olds to do.

I think that maturity is part of it, for example I would guess that sophomores may be more sure of who they are, and that that can make a difference. However, the thing with IU is that the tent talk is just so bad, and it's hard to avoid. It's not a surprise to me that people fall victim to it. When someone tells you "XYZ isn't social and doesn't go out," a lot of girls don't know what to think and just take it at face value.

All the angst over tiers - Why do women do this to themselves?

I was an active at a large state university well before Greek Rank invented the concept of tiers. But even back in the Stone Age we kinda knew what was what. My fraternity was well known, very visible and well regarded, with about 35 actives (low average for the campus). Each school year we tried to have mixers/socials with every sorority - from those generally considered (using today's terminology as a shorthand reference) "top tier" to those considered "lower tier."

Here are my observations. Please note that I do not believe my experiences and opinions are unique and many fraternity members have had similar experiences.

1) The women in the "lower tier" sororities generally shared an important and desirable trait - THEY SHOWED UP. At that time, mixers were funded 100 percent by the fraternity hosting the event. When we held a mixer with a "lower tier" sorority they would show up in numbers and stay for hours. Overall - we thought they were more fun and generally had better social skills than the "top tier" groups. We could always count on them for a fun evening. This was the general opinion and experience of other fraternities as well.

This was not true with some (not all) of the so called "top tier" sororities. It was always hit or miss with them. We never knew how many would be showing up. (Some of these groups had 100+ members.) Sometimes only their pledges/new members would show up. Believe me, we remembered and bore some resentment towards the group because of this. Other fraternities also experienced this and felt the same way.

2) When I became an upperclassman, the upperclasswomen in the upper tier sororities became MIA. Many of them simply stopped going to Greek stuff. (Might have been before the concept of levying fines for non attendance became a thing.) Or they would go for only 10 or 15 minutes, then leave. Not true for the "lower tier" girls. Their upperclasswomen would stay the duration.

I'll leave it to someone else to explain this. All I can say is that, in general, most fraternities like groups that like them. They do not like snobs - even pretty ones. They like women to show up and expect to have fun and do their part, regardless of their "tier." To most of them, the "tier" system is absolutely and solely about looks - and that's as deep as their analysis goes.

I confirmed with the chapter that we are doing informal, but the dates and information have not been provided on social media yet. If it's anything like past years, the exact schedule will be posted on all of our social media platforms within the next few days.

I joined through formal recruitment, but my little joined through informal. It's a really great way to get to know the chapters in a less structured format and with more time. I would highly suggest considering it!

I was going to say the same thing as Phil - that “tiers” don’t just affect women negatively. One of the fraternities we were close with had a “nerd” image (which was ridiculous because they were some of the hardest partiers I knew) and they were always trying to get a mixer with the “top” sorority. One time they finally did, only to have no one other than the sorority pledges show up and stay for less than an hour. So naturally they hated them after that.

On the other side of the coin, all was better for us once we got rid of the social chair who only wanted to mix with the “safe” fraternities, and had one who reached out to all the groups, even ones who’d been considered “out of our reach.” None of the guys ever complained that we weren’t all models - they were always surprised at what a good time they had.

I say, if a group of fraternities and a group of sororities want to get together and set up a round robin sort of schedule, just do it and leave NPC and IFC out of it. Let the snobs keep their snobbing to themselves.

I’ve said this before and will say it again. Women believe the sorority makes them; men believe they make the fraternity.