They have to be joking.

Your second sentence is more accurate than your first.

Yes Hazing is Terrible. But still people should not be able to just walk in get a bid and be handed letters. Letters should still be earned and pledging is to get to know who you are letting into your organization before they are your brother/sister.

Well then just outta curiousity, how do you get to know pledges when there are no situations that put them on the spot, or how do you get to see who really wants to be there? I don't support life threatening or dangerous hazing, but I don't think scavenger hunts or anything that has relevency to the chapter should be considered hazing, especially if the pledges go along with it. IMO the only way ANYTHING should be considered hazing is if the person that is being hazed is actually offended or disturbed by it and comes forward themselves, not people on the outside who have no idea what is going on. Macallen, if you think I am being serious then you are the idiot, try not to use such harsh words.

Well events such as Scavenger Hunts are not hazing. Or at least not in my book. We did a scavenger hunt with teams. Half brothers/Half Pledges and thats how we got to know each other better.

Well under florida law that could be considered hazing. Under Florida law wearing a pin can be hazing. That is the point I am trying to make, if they wanted to they could make a case out of anything being hazing. Whether it be pledge vs. brothers football game or anything like that.

That's for the individual GLO to decide. Most, if not all, NPCs consider scavenger hunts hazing.

In the early 90s my chapter was instructed by IHQ to stop doing scavenger hunts and we haven't done one ever since. I have no opinion on the matter since I really don't care either way, but I can imagine it being a huge potential risk management issue.

Brother,
As seen another thread, which while about hazing was not here, Florida law has several major holes in it.
http://www.blackpressusa.com/News/Ar...s&NewsID=11034

And, as activly discussed in RM in several threads, many of the laws while very well needed, meant, and/or wished for are rushed though with lack of clarity.

Why? Well just how often do you read about off campus houses having problems? Or dorms? You generally do not.

However, if any member or members of a GLO do anything out of "norm", the GLO is front and center in the news even if the chapter was not connected to the event or problem.

And that is just one of the many reasons.

Another one is the there are members and there are chapters that just do things that one should not do. And those members and chapters help bring "doom and gloom" on the rest of us.

And Brother, I am speaking from experience: The SAE Riot was front page news for weeks. Yet we did not riot. Two other chapters did, on our front lawn.

And much later, due to many factors such as poor leadership, drinking, and hazing, School and National pulled Charter.

Along the way, two other chapters on campus lost charters as well. Do not know their reasons.

Well, you went about trying to explain yourself in a piss poor manner.

Sorry we didn't gather from these posts that you weren't being serious.

YHO does not, at this time, count for all that much. This is, again, something that was been beaten to death here in RM.

Visit some of the other hazing threads to see why.

And as for getting to know some one, great way is to put one's hand out and say HI, lets sit down and talk. Lets work, together, and see what we can do.

With all due respect why does my opinion not count? Everyone else seems to be able to voice their opinion on "hazing", they also seem to love to trash fraternities that do "haze" I have not at any point said well you guys are terrible because you don't "haze". I just think that certain things need to be clarified more in the laws and that is all. I feel that it is unconstitutional to be charged for a crime were the "victims" are willing, that is all I wanted to say. Sorry if I offended or rattled anyone.

Brother,
My grammar may have been a bit off. Everyone does have a right to their HO/POV. That said, please review the other threads and you may get an idea of what has happened here.

And yes, many laws and policies have the need to be clarified.
Just as, IMHO, all socal/living/sporting ( et al) groups need to clarify just how they are going to get along.

Yeah I think I may have misunderstood what you were trying to say, I'm sorry.

Hard doesnt mean that it has to be hazing. At my chapter we tell Rushees that our pledgeship is time demanding (i.e. pledge tests, community service, a thing called Blackbooks basically mini-interviews) but we never haze.

Hazing is meant to create a bond by putting a group of people through a traumatic experience but that only bonds that group with itself and not the rest of the members in the house.

A good pledge program is one that intergrates the actives with the associates. "Blackbooks" can work if used properly, that is, for legitimate interviews. Hazing will ruin a chapter and the greek community at the school. A fraternity on my campus got caught hazing and now the rest of us are under constant scrutiny because of it.