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-   -   After Several Years: What Do You Think of the New Release Figures? (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=102012)

Titchou 06-29-2010 10:05 PM

Amen, DTD!

Barbie's_Rush 06-30-2010 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by violetpretty (Post 1948990)
Splash is most certainly our hypothetical Suzie that got cut from a chapter she wanted after round 1 as evidenced by:

1. Knowing nothing about recruitment on the campus/chapter level
2. Her fixation on "Suzie"
and
3. The fact that her recruitment stories do not add up to a real chapter/campus.

I responded to Splash's posts explaining why her suggestions do more harm than good. I find it interesting that all she can come up with is, "but Suzie could have gotten another chance," and she doesn't even respond to what I've said to her.

Indeed.

I have a question about invites to rounds prior to RFM being put into place. From what I understand, it was a badge of honor for chapters to have huge numbers of pnms return with each round and really big cuts at the "popular chapters" were done toward the very end. The popular chaters ended up with almost all of the "best" pnms to chose from. The other chapters had a considerably smaller pool by preference because many pnms had previously dropped them while being strung along by the popular chapters. Before RFM, were there no rules or guidelines about how many pnms you had to cut each round?

KSUViolet06 06-30-2010 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barbie's_Rush (Post 1949127)
Indeed.

I have a question about invites to rounds prior to RFM being put into place. From what I understand, it was a badge of honor for chapters to have huge numbers of pnms return with each round and really big cuts at the "popular chapters" were done toward the very end. The popular chaters ended up with almost all of the "best" pnms to chose from. The other chapters had a considerably smaller pool by preference because many pnms had previously dropped them while being strung along by the popular chapters. Before RFM, were there no rules or guidelines about how many pnms you had to cut each round?

Not to my knowledge (and I was active pre-RFM). Every chapter had its own way of determining how many to cut/keep. You could invite back the entire list if you wanted to, or cut half of it. It was up to each chapter to determine what was best for them (regardless of what was best for the PNMs in the end).

I seem to remember that it was the goal to have close to 100% returns and full (max) parties.

Generally speaking, More Popular House would cut however many they wanted because they just kind of knew that whoever they DID invite back was going to accept and the party would be full no matter what. Some bigger houses cut a little and some a lot.

Less Popular would invite back larger portions of the list just in case some girls declined, they'd still have shot at a full party and a decent return rate.

Whether chapters were actually interested in the women in their full parties was a different story.The choice was up to the chapters.

In the beginning of RFM, I remember many chapters being up in arms about it because it told them how many to cut. Chapters were used to being able to decide that for themselves.

The problem was, the whole "everybody decide numbers for yourselves" didn't really help PNMs. The goal was "full parties" and not necessarily "full parties with PNMs we actually want." So chapters would keep a girl they only sort of liked for 3 whole rounds. This was why the heaviest cuts used to come right before Pref.

honeychile 06-30-2010 12:50 AM

What I remember is a sort of self-imposed release for the last two parties:

-Invite no one to the (second to the last) party unless you think you may invite her to Pref, then

-Invite no one to Pref who wouldn't appear somewhere on your Bid List - unless a very, very major mistake is made (like the PNM showing up nude & drunk).

The biggest problem was with those GLOs who didn't use these guidelines, and invite at least 4 times quota to Pref. Then they would always pull some aside for SIP/Suicide. There were no guidelines, so they were in their rights to do this, but to me, it left much too many PNMs hung out to dry. It was just plain rude!

So, color me very much in favor of the Release Figures!

KSUViolet06 06-30-2010 12:56 AM

I seem to remember it the same as honeychile, except I think we had the issue of chapters having max invites at all their 3rd round parties (day before Pref) then cutting down to the girls they ACTUALLY wanted right after that.

So XYZ would have like 100 girls at all their 3rd round parties, then do a MASSIVE cut right after that to get to the Pref numbers they wanted.

honeychile 06-30-2010 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 (Post 1949136)
I seem to remember it the same as honeychile, except I think we had the issue of chapters having max invites at all their 3rd round parties (day before Pref) then cutting down to the girls you ACTUALLY want right after that.

So XYZ would have like 100 girls at all their 3rd round parties, then do a MASSIVE cut right after that to get to the Pref numbers they wanted.

That was a second reason for Release Figures. PNMs would be so completely psyched out that they had already bought XYZ t-shirts (I know, super silly!), then not even get an invitation to Pref. Still dirty rush in my book.

KSUViolet06 06-30-2010 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by honeychile (Post 1949137)
That was a second reason for Release Figures. PNMs would be so completely psyched out that they had already bought XYZ t-shirts (I know, super silly!), then not even get an invitation to Pref. Still dirty rush in my book.

Indeed. I saw/heard of many a very sad PNM quitting recruitment immediately the minute they got their Pref schedule because XYZ had invited them back every round and suddenly wasn't there come Pref time.

It was always the same story:

"I thought they liked me, they invited me back every day."

"How could they cut me now after they asked me back 3 times?"

"I don't understand."

Titchou 06-30-2010 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barbie's_Rush (Post 1949127)
Indeed.

I have a question about invites to rounds prior to RFM being put into place. From what I understand, it was a badge of honor for chapters to have huge numbers of pnms return with each round and really big cuts at the "popular chapters" were done toward the very end. The popular chaters ended up with almost all of the "best" pnms to chose from. The other chapters had a considerably smaller pool by preference because many pnms had previously dropped them while being strung along by the popular chapters. Before RFM, were there no rules or guidelines about how many pnms you had to cut each round?

They did have guidelines based on the return percentages over the prior 3 years. However, unless you had a Greek Adviser who was strong enough to hold to that, everyone pretty much fudged the numbers somewhat. I worked with a lot of chapters in the south (SEC and non-SEC) in the 80's and 90's and that was my experience.

Low C Sharp 06-30-2010 11:24 AM

Quote:

But doesn't Penn have a lot of problems with underground sororities and fraternities?
I don't see much of a relationship here. There's a bigger underground scene for fraternities than sororities, yet the fraternities do a better job of upperclass retention (IMHO, because they are smaller and because of the housing they offer). Most NPC rushees/members aren't focused on what's going on underground. They leave because sororities are uncool for juniors/seniors, not because they are joining underground groups that are perceived as more cool.
________
ScarletFlower4u

DG'89 06-30-2010 08:08 PM

Originally, I was a skeptic about the RFM, but I have personally witnessed that RFM works if you follow the numbers. Invite the correct number back and you are usually on track to achieve quota.

Some College Panhellenics will try to persuade lower return chapters to take women they do not want in order for them to achieve their number. However, chapters can insist upon their right to not invite back any PNM who is not a fit for their chapter (be sure to loop in your regional/national team if you do this). Because in the end, the chapter has the ultimate right to decide who to invite back. But, they need to understand that if they significantly under-invite, they risk not making quota that year.

Bottom Line: RFM works and makes all chapters stronger.

33girl 06-30-2010 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DG'89 (Post 1949482)
Some College Panhellenics will try to persuade lower return chapters to take women they do not want in order for them to achieve their number. However, chapters can insist upon their right to not invite back any PNM who is not a fit for their chapter (be sure to loop in your regional/national team if you do this). Because in the end, the chapter has the ultimate right to decide who to invite back. But, they need to understand that if they significantly under-invite, they risk not making quota that year.

Or they risk the PNMs they DO want getting turned off by the freakazoids they were forced to invite back...and the PNMs put them at the bottom of their lists...and the chapter doesn't make quota anyway.

RFM is fabulous to keep the most popular chapters from "hogging" PNMs and to help the rushees themselves take a look beyond Top Tier. It is not, however, a good idea when it's used as a way to "force" struggling chapters to take anyone with an ovary just so the school can crow about their 100% placement rate.

I don't think you were advocating any of that though. :) Not to mention that kind of BS has been around since before RFM.

AXOrushadvisor 06-30-2010 09:44 PM

Yes, this was the case on our campus
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Titchou (Post 1949162)
They did have guidelines based on the return percentages over the prior 3 years. However, unless you had a Greek Adviser who was strong enough to hold to that, everyone pretty much fudged the numbers somewhat. I worked with a lot of chapters in the south (SEC and non-SEC) in the 80's and 90's and that was my experience.

They gave you numbers to release and it was "suggested" you followed them, but not enforced. We did follow them pretty closely, but the releases after round one were less then half of what they are with RFM. In fact, the first year we did RFM we started releasing prior to them giving us our figures (grades mostly) and almost had a heart attack when the number came to us. We couldn't believe that it would actually work. I always worry about a Chapter having a misstep and then getting messed up, but I haven't seen that happen only a chapter mixing up their invite and their regret list:(

We used to have a strong Chapter on campus who would not drop any girls except grades during round one and do all their cuts before preference! Their round 3 parties were HUGE!

carnation 06-30-2010 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 1949491)
Or they risk the PNMs they DO want getting turned off by the freakazoids they were forced to invite back

-hence my story about the orange and purple girl in the Weird Rush Stories thread, lol-

Psi U MC Vito 06-30-2010 10:28 PM

How did things work before RFM?

gold and pearls 06-30-2010 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito (Post 1949517)
How did things work before RFM?

The "conventional wisdom" was that each round should have projected quota multiplied by the number of events in the round. Example: if the campus expected quota to be 50 and PNMs could attend 8 events in that round, each chapter should have 400 PNMs attending their events that round. However, these numbers were not enforced and it was accepted regardless of the chapter's usual return rate. So, if the next round had up to 5 events (which conventional wisdom would indicate 250 total PNMs attending events), a chapter that had a 95% average return (we'll call ABC) for that round would need to release about 130 PNMs and a chapter that had 50% average returns (DEF) for the round would need to release no PNMs and would likely still not have the requisite 250 PNMs attending their events. Then, preference rolls around and ABC (with, let's say, a 90% return for that round and let us assume a 2 event preference) needs to release 125 PNMs to get down to 100 PNMs for preference. Potentially, there are 125 PNMs who have regretted DEF (or other chapters) and now don't have the option of ABC or DEF.

I know this is confusing and I probably could be clearer. I'm happy to answer any questions, I feel that I'm fairly well versed in "recruitment math." I'm thinking about posting a recruitment story from the "inside" this year, so I'm keeping my posts intentionally vague. I'd like to be able to include actual numbers, but I don't know how wise that would be.


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