When I read things written in APA, I tend to totally ignore the citations--I guess I must be used to it. Only after I've read through once do I go back and pay attention to who they were citing, if I need to.

(And Kevin, she's in college, hoping to transfer).

Just pointing out:

I am most emphatically not a grammar nerd.

I think it's just another one of the hoops that we all jump through to reinforce our ideals of social class. Grammar is intrinsic- you know when something makes sense or when it's meaningless babble (wannabe's posts). Reading a grammar book won't change that,just tell you where to put the commas and semi-colons.

If using proper grammar and expecting the same of others makes me a snob, then just call me Paris Hilton.

It's really not difficult, and you will be taken 100 times more serious (whether here on GC or out in the "real world") if you take the time to proofread, punctuate and capitalize.

Ahem... self-proclaimed grammar nerd (snob?), here.

You're right, AF, even though you were grammatically incorrect. You will be taken 100 times more seriously...

:p

Actually, I knew I was wrong, and that it didn't sound right, but my brain shut off and I couldn't figure out how to better express my sentiment.:)

Still, when I say I'm a grammar snob, I mean I appreciate the attempt, even if it's not perfect. People, such as the OP, who don't even make the attempt are what drive me crazy.:p

I make an effort to use proper grammar because I write for a living, and for a series of clients at that. Everything has to be perfect, every comma, colon and bullet point has to be formatted exactly the same way. Drives me nuts.

I just don't put much stock in it personally. It's an unfortunate necessity as far as I'm concerned.

Proud to be a Grammar Nerd
 

I don't believe a command of grammar has anything to do with social class. There are numerous examples in public life of those who may technically be of a high social class who cause their former English teachers to weep. It does indicate a certain level of education, but is easily learned by anyone who cares to go to the public library. (I wish I could say anyone who has received a public education, but we all know that is no longer the case. I know of a school district where you can be fired for teaching sentence diagramming!)
Anyone who has tried to make sense of a post filled with grammatical errors or had to try and translate the pigeon English of a technical support person knows that it is frustrating.
I do believe it is necessary for clear communication. With the advent of text-driven technology it has become more important than ever. That said, I am not one to go around correcting grammar for free. Heck, I've made a fair living doing it for money. Of course, if you decide to adopt a holier-than-thou attitude here on GC and do so in a post riddled with errors, you have painted a target on yourself.
I also think it is important to realize that a language is not a static thing. It evolves and changes. For example, technically "their" is plural. But having dealt with the "his/her" thing for so long, I have come to think that perhaps a nice, simple singular use of "their" would make things easier. Which is better - "Every student must bring his/her book" or "Every student must bring their book". I know the second is wrong - but I hate the first. Mind you, I still use the first. But secretly, I hope the second is eventually accepted.

Well said, SWTXBelle (the whole post, not just what was quoted). Regarding the quoted part, wouldn't "All students must bring their books" solve the problem? (I'm not nitpicking, I'm honestly asking.)

One of my profs in undergrad was a stickler for split infinitives ("To boldly go where no man has gone before" is grammatically incorrect) and the proper placement of the word "only". It's amazing how some things, even if they're wrong, just sound more correct than what actually is correct.

BTW, I figure this discussion isn't really a hijack, as the thread topic is right/wrong.

I've been saying for years that before long, grammar books will recognize this use of "their" as acceptable. Same with "they" -- "Dad, someone's on the phone for you." "I'm busy. What do they want?"

Of course, the problem in your example is avoided if one says "All students must bring their books." ;)

ETA: Sydney, great minds think alike.

How about we just say this and call it a day:

http://happybunny.orbitearthstores.c...smarterbig.jpg

I have no problem with rules that reinforce clear communication- use of periods, avoiding run-on sentences, subject-verb agreement, my pet peeve about the use of apostrophes, etc. They make sense.

But little nitpicky things like using "their" instead of his/her, or proper use of whom, or using the word ain't, or a million other questions of proper grammar usage (that are increasingly archaic) are completely useless IMO. In those cases, it's not about clear communication, it's about dumb rules that increasingly fewer people know or care about.

ETA: I dont care about the initial poster really- I think our present conversation is way more interesting.

I can see your points, but I wholeheartedly disagree with endorsing the word "ain't". It's grammatically incorrect to its core. It supposedly is a contraction for "am not", but since "am not" is preceded (correctly) by only the word "I", "I'm not" works just fine (and is grammatically correct).

When people say, "He ain't..." they're turning "is not" into a grammatically incorrect form of "isn't". If they're using "he ain't" as a form of "he am not", well, that's just even more wrong.

I've yet to see a example of "ain't" that is grammatically correct. If someone can show me one, I'd be happy to entertain the idea of "ain't" becoming acceptable. Until then, I'll just go on cringing every time I hear/read it. (And unfortunately, that's pretty often.)

/off soapbox

I'm not saying that ain't is correct- it isn't. But the meaning is in no way unclear- I understand perfectly well what it means and the use of the word is an indicator of class, region and upbringing as opposed to a lack of understanding on the part of the speaker.

So happy to see you don't put commas before "and"! That is my personal pet peeve! Of course, I have many pets...my husband suggests that all people call my 1-800 number to get my opinion before doing anything!!:D

The serial comma is an accepted part of english grammar!

Don't take it away!