Again, your lack of reading has you missing the original point made and you seem to missing the fact that I, among several other posters, have clearly stated that in our PERSONAL experiences "Spanish" was used to describe/identify Latinos before we entered college, and upon entering college Latino became the more commonly heard/used term. Which is why in my response to Serenity (at least I think it was her), I stated the decade in which the organization was founded (the 1980s) "Spanish" was a common descriptor for latinos, particularly in the North East. No one made the claim that latino was a "new" term established circa the turn of the century, but that we didn't witness it's usage until then. If your experiences are/were different, great, those are your personal experiences, yet it still does not negate what everyone else has said.

Locals is the key word in the paragraph. You are currently in Texas (according the location you filled out in GC) and what it is in Texas is not always what it is in Boston, NYC, or Jersey City, etc. You are trying to extrapolate what you know from Texas, to the entire US/other regions of the country. There are undoubtedly similarities, as there are undoubtedly differences.

I'm not quite understanding this disagreement. Is the problem that people don't believe that there are (or were) latinos within the last 10 years who called themselves "Spanish?" I can take people to Detroit myself and show you...

I've asked my husband what he (and his friends - Mostly Colombian and Salvadorian) prefers, and he will tolerate Latino, Hispanic, Spanish, or for him personally - Jarocho (it's what he really prefers, but it can't be applied very widely). Really, anything but Chicano, he does not like the term Chicano.

I completely agree with you wicked! I am the President of a multicultural sorority (www.lambdaphixiunr.com) and as you can see we are truly multicultural and it is one of our founding principles to focus on maintaining diversity and it is really annoying how other groups, usually when needing numbers, say they are now multicultural. At my school I like the girls in Kappa Delta Chi but they got mad at us in the Fall for saying we are the only multicultural sorority but my response was if you say you are multicultural but every single girl is Latina than that speaks for itself it has nothing to do with what we are putting out there as part of our recruitment. If you check out our site be sure to check it again on Friday because then it will be updated with our 18 new sisters!

Yep, that is essentially the debate. Nitido feels I was incorrect in my assessment that I'd never heard "latino" used before I entered college in 1999/2000.

<-----thank you! :D you are right...my comment attempts to extrapolate what you referred to as "what you know from Texas to the entire US/other regions of the Country"..now let's see, isn't that kinda of what you did in your original post by saying that:


Look, I think in the end we both can probably agree on lots of things. But my main issue with your original post is that while there were many folks who used spanish as a descriptor for themselves and allowed non-hispanics to do so as well (be it for whatever motives) the larger majority knew that there was something better (albeit, mostly innacurate) to describe themselves.

Anecdotal experiences such as "carlito and juan jose del monte in my 2000 student school called themselves spanish," are welcome, but should not be accepted as proof of a trend in the use of ethnic qualifier. That's why we pay people with tittles to spit out numbers, HISTORY books and studies.

Let's also remember that this hodge podge of opinions is only relevant in the grand U.S of A. Out in LATIN-america, this spanish nomenclature thing is a non-issue. (as in Español means Spanish language or Spaniard and we just don't do that yo..lol) Hence my level of disbelief that with the constant inflow of hispanic immigrants through this nation, there would be an acceptance of this term.

I tried to understand you better by finding out where you grew up (not that I care about where your hood was or want to steal your identity) but perhaps just dropping something like "I grew up in the Craddle of America" would have given me a clue and more insight on your opinion.

Never said that you were incorrect. Is being "right" a default setting? and is the purpose of an exchange of opinions/ideas to prove the other "wrong"?

But hey, in the end...what they hey...dismiss what I said as just my opinion.....is the closing of the mind that's prevalent nowadays anyways.

I apologize for expecting you to read, but just in case you glossed over it, in my original post I said:

I would speculate the use of "Spanish" in the above quote was appropriate at the time/in the place that it was originally written. I'm from the northeast and prior to going to college (1999/200) "Spanish" was commonly used as a descriptor by both Latinos and non Latinos.

Now if you were unclear of the time and place that MSU was founded and their history written you could have a) asked or b) looked it up yourself.

FYI: Mu Sigma Upsilon was founded at Rutgers University (New Brunswick, NJ) in 1981.


And again your still missing a crucial point, you, nor anyone else can determine what is "better" for an individual or group to self identify as. Great, a majority of people NOW use Latino, that by all means does not mean Latino is better or worse than another term nor should it be forced on those that don't wish to use it simply because you think so and/or the majority of people use it.

You're exactly right, so do the reading both history as well as other literature forms and get back to me about what the common terminology for "latinos" in the northeast was in the 1970s and 1980s.

Last I checked we were talking about usage in the United States, particularly in the northeast of the United States, so what "Juan Jose del Monte" in Caracas calls himself while in Caracas is irrelevant.

I believe I've said multiple times that I grew up in the northeast. As did tld221 when she related a similar experience, and brownsugar brought her experience growing up in the midwest. Reading is oh so fundamental.

No, you just tried to assert that a statement I made from my personal experience was inaccurate.

Dude!!! reading is my hobby...what are you into? I read mostly Historical and Sociological non-fiction. so...let me put an X on that part of your requirement...X

Mujeres Siempre Unidas was founded in 1981, thanks for reminding me, I learned that like 9 years ago....X

I didn't determine these terms or their acceptance, people before me and you did....BIG X

What Juan Jose del Monte calls himself outside the U.S. was brought up by me because northeast Spanish people (jeje) tend to be newer than the hispanics endemic to the nation that live in New Mexico, Texas, Arizona, California, etc. Thus, you would expect more of the culture from their country of origin present in the latter generations there, at least imho. withhold the X on this one

Inaccurate/incorrect, tomatito/tomato...I said neither of your previous statement...you said reading was what again? fun:cool:damental....GIGANTIC X

Look I get it, Beantown people called themselves spanish in the 70's...right? that's why my Grandfather (old school, smoove Dominicano) who lived in the Boston area in the late 70's worked at the Hispanic American Center (don't remember where it was, but it was somewhere there). That's why my mom and her sisters and brothers in suburban-ass New Hampshire were called hispanic by their mostly white classmates.

Look, you are correct about everything you said. (Not really everything, but does it matter anymore?)

I just thought that a person with an advanced degree in Latin American Studies such as yourself would have more of an open mind than just her academics and her anecdotal knowledge. I admit I made a mistake.

Take care and may the almighty bless you and yours this Xmas (got another X in, yeayyyyyyyyy)

The Red Sox Rule!!!!!

Again a blanket assertation. But everyone has a right to the own opinion.

Your grandfather worked at the HAC, so what's the point of that info?

I'm not sure that my statements of "people should be called what they wish" and "neither you or I can/should determine how a person should self identify" can get any more open minded, but if you have an idea, please share.

You earned a point for this one, but I had to drop it down to 1/2 a point because you failed to mention the Patriots.

Blanket assertion? you gotta be kidding me...the abuelo thing? put that out there just wondering why it wasn't called the Spanish-american center since it was "accepted"...and thanks for the medio punto...the Pats are overrated anyways...they've almost crumbled once or twice to relatively subpar teams...

being open minded to me is more than being PC and saying "we are the world and you can be the world too" is to actually hear what another person is saying instead of throwing it right back and saying "you wrong dawg, go read a book or some articles"

I'm done. I originally expressed my disagreement and asked for more proof to your theory (cause it is after all, a theory) and you tossed a tittle at the thread and whatever came after was just the usual "it's your opinion and you are entitled to it, I done turneth my nose upeth and thine thoughts and knowledgeth are thine and not mineth"

Se acabo. Cuidese por ahi y que Dio' me la bendiga

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by the way, the whole changing of the "Latino Fraternity/Sorority" to "Multicultural" is interesting to me...on one hand it puts in question the plurality that is Hispanic culture and on the other it brings up possible recruitment shortfalls caused by the term.

It's definitely complex, and I truly can't see me siding with one side or the other...

There are some people that call themselves black, afro-american, african-american, and there are still people that call themselves colored (please don't ever use that term). It happens. I don't understand why people are so upset that some are admitting that there are people still in this country using the less "correct" term. It's really nothing to argue about.

I think that if a latina sorority all of a sudden starts calling themselves multicultural because the latin culture is diverse, then every single sorority could call themselves multicultural. Asian culture is diverse. European culture is diverse.... I think the tag on "multicultural" term is used for recruitment purposes only and the excuse of the latino culture being diverse is used to justify it. i have found that at universities where there is a small latino population, they like to boost they are multicultural. But in areas that there is a strong latino representation, they emphasize that they are latina based. I don't think you can have it both ways. It is against the law to discriminate against others based on race. Just because an organization has let in a couple of "others", it doesn't mean they should just add to their founding principles. These days it would be really hard to find any organization that doesn't have different ethnic groups represented.

Amen.

This is why I said you don't read. No where did I state that "Spanish" was the only descriptor used for Latinos in the North East. What I did say, for the millionth time, is that I had never heard it used until college. It does not surprise me that the HAC was titled the HAC because the use of the term "Spanish" was more colloquial/everyday vs. formal (naming of institutions, university departments, etc.) "Accepted" does not mean universal.

I heard what you said and did not disagree with you on most points. What I did disagree with was you attempting to negate my personal experiences, and your use of "misinformed latinos" and the assertion that Latino is better therefore everyone who falls under the category should use it.

Just because I disagree with you, and am defending my point, does not mean I'm turning my nose up at you. If you got anything besides disagreement that is because you read too much into it. The RIF statement was because you continue to argue without reading what I wrote (as it is) and instead read what you thought I was saying.

I personally love the word colored if I'm the one using it. So does my mentor.

To the rest of this thread:

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e2...ik721/babs.jpg

Let em fight! Let em fight!

Hahahaha, Te amo!