I understand that they might not but that is the whole point. They get another chance.


I didn't say anything about a chapter having something that another cannot offer. PNM's have their own reasons for choosing the chapters they want to go back to but the fact that most of them choose the same suggests something. And if Jenny gets bumped because Suzie changed their mind, then great for Suzie, she deserves to be there more than Jenny and she wouldn't have with RFM


Right. As I said you do increase your chances WITH chapter A.

And I'm sorry but being in one chapter over another is not something that anyone should take lightly in my opinion. It's an important decision.


I'm not bitter. I adore my chapter. It was the chapter I wanted all along so I'm not sure what you're talking about. I just have a different opinion than you.

1. How many chances should they get? Just one more? Two more? What if they come back one more time after that? The cuts have to happen sometime. How many people get that second chance? Short of adding another night to recruitment it is done when it's done. For every person it might help, it hurts someone else's chances of getting any bid.
2. It's mutual selection. It doesn't matter how much Suzie PNM wants Chapter A or for what reason she wants them, they have to want her too. If she chooses to drop after being cut, it's her choice, and probably her loss. (And no, Suzie doesn't deserve it more than Jenny. Why won't you give Jenny another chance too?)
3. Your posts tend to be troll-ish. But let me give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're not getting it. You seem to prefer that RFM doesn't exist. Fine. But it's not going away. And it benefits the majority over the highly unlikely individual who just might have made a better impression the next time. Yes, it might have made your recruitment different, and changed your 'fate' so to speak, but it doesn't work retroactively so don't apply it that way. Think about the greek system as a whole.

Good of the many over the good of the few (or the one.)

Suzie deserves it more because she got the extra chance (Jenny made the initial cut) and after meeting them both again they decided they wanted Suzie more.

I'm not a troll just because I don't agree with most of the posts on this board. Besides I can discuss and offer my opinion about RFM even if it is here to stay.

So why not give Jenny one more chance? (Meanwhile Rachel also got invited back, had no chance and in the process cut Sorority B, she ends up bid-less because of it. )

You seem like a troll because you never appear to actually respond to the post, just insist on your point "but what about the one person"

And you haven't actually given your opinion on RFM, just pouted for the one person who might just maybe omg might have gotten another chance.

Jenny already did get the second chance. She was already invited back to the second round and then blew it because when making cuts for third round they decided they wanted Suzie more (who they would have cut after first round with RFM).

How did Rachel not have a chance if she was invited back? She got another round to meet the girls-that was her chance.

I am responding to your posts with what I think. I'm sorry if you don't like the way I speak or write or whatever, but I am saying what I think. Again, that does not make me a troll.

I don't have a strict opinion on RFMs. I do have an opinion in that I feel bad for the girl that could have made it into that sorority if she got another chance.

So you should get two chances but not three? Sounds like you'd just rather have a second round robin/non-cutting night.

Rachel was never going to get in to sorority A, she just barely made the cut to get invited back to the extra party sorority A added just to give Suzie a second chance. In the process she cut B. Because she went to A where she had no chance, she didn't get a bid at all.

The thing is, there are no Suzies or Rachels. They're all "what-ifs." There's no one for you to feel bad for. No PNM knows for sure why she's not invited back, and they're aware that some chapters are more competitive than others. Ideally they know that some chapters will cut more heavily than others. There are very few PNMs who this will hurt, and those are people who refuse to consider another chapter after losing out on Sorority A. That means it's the PNM's choice, for better or for worse, not to continue with recruitment or accept a bid.

If you want to "feel bad" for someone who gets cut earlier, well fine. But more PNMs would end up bidless (snap bids not withstanding) and chapters would struggle without the new system. So join us on the campus/system level discussion if you actually want to talk about it.

/and none of this means you're not a troll either. 33girl linked several good reasons.

Actually by inviting Rachel back, she has a chance to change the sorority's mind.

It seems to me that the general opinion is that the top groups are going to have the same pledge class with or without RFM. This is not the case because of the girls I am talking about who change minds. These are the girls I feel bad for. This is the PNM's it will hurt and no it is not just the girls that would only accept a bid to sorority A. That may be their number 1 preference though.

If you want to think I'm a troll for past behavior that I've already recanted, then fine. You don't have to talk to me you know, but for the record, I've been nothing but polite and respectful to you.

No, Rachel is standing in for a PNM who, for whatever reason - grades, money, looks, annoying-ness - would never make it into that sorority. You have to invite back a whole party of girls, not just one.


They will have the same number of girls. They will likely have the same pledge class. They might have one PNM change their mind. You're playing in hypotheticals and talking about them like they are absolutes. I'm talking averages and probabilities.

How is a PNM who gets a bid to another chapter hurt? Many don't get their first choice. And most are happy with their bid. So.... who loses again?


No, I mostly think you're focused on Little Suzie because she was you. And that somehow RFM would have changed your fate. (Or someone close to you) and you seem to be incapable of looking at the Greek system, even on your own campus. Feel bad for Suzie all you like. To Greeks as a whole, her ability to change A's mind doesn't matter.

Also :rolleyes: at the bolded.

If they weren't using RFM they would get to invite back a certain number of girls. That number minus the girls they would cut if they did use RFM are the ones who get the second chance, not girls that would be cut after first round without RFM.

They will still have the same number of girls in the pledge class. I have never denied that. They likely will not have the EXACT SAME pledge class. How similar (whether it is identical or far different) probably depends on the school a lot and other factors. This whole example is hypothetical is it not? The only absolute I am saying is that there will definitinely be situations where a girl normally cut after first round due to RFM would end up with a bid to that sorority.

As for the PNM getting a bid to another sorority, she's not getting her first choice which she might have gotten.

I definitely wasn't Susie seeing that I got my first choice. I do know people that I feel bad for but I'm not thinking of anyone in particular at the moment. How exactly am I incapable of looking at the Greek system on my or any campus? Please be specific, I'd like to know. And please don't speak for the entire Greek community by saying that her changing their mind doesn't matter. You and a lot of this board agree but I am part of the Greek community and I think it matters. Besides it's ironic that everyone on this board is all for the sorority being able to change the mind of the PNM and win her over but not the other way around. I know how recruitment works but that's not mutual.

And what is wrong with what I said that you bolded? You are dead set in thinking that I am a troll yet you continue to give me thought out responses.

So only some people get should second chances? Why shouldn't those people who get cut after the first round w/o RFM get second chances? Why are the people who get cut with RFM more deserving than the ones who get cut without it?

Sure, but they're rare. There would be more situations where a girl wouldn't get a bid at all. Which is preferable?
Happens to a lot of people. If most are happy, why is that considered something 'bad'?

Because you are focused on the rare individual instead of the community as a whole. The PNMs don't know why they're cut, so they don't know if they had a "chance" or not. This maximizes every PNM's options, leads to more PNMs getting bids and helps every chapter reach quota. It's not a perfect system, but what is?

It's not about changing the sorority's mind because odds are the sorority doesn't hate her, they just like X number of people better, and out of that X only Y will come to pref and then 1/2Y (or 1/3Y or whatever) will get bids. If Suzie wants to be in that number she's the same chance as everyone else (she can't control what chapters pre-make bid lists etc.). Being the applicant to something, whether a sorority, a job, or a school means that you're not the one in control of the system. If a job invites the top 3 candidates for interview, someone's always going to be number 4.

It's childish.

Yeah, we get it, someone somewhere could have gotten into her dream sorority IF she'd just gotten that extra chance to impress the group in Round 2. But not likely. If you get cut at Round 1, you are in the bottom basement of their list. Maybe you'd be able to change their mind at the borderline of Round 2/3 but earlier than that, the probabilities are very low.

The converse to letting these popular groups string along large groups of girls they are completely uninterested in is that to keep going back to "Top Chapter", they have to let go one of the chapters that may be actually willing to give them a bid. So when "Top Chapter" finally does release them, as is inevitable, they have fewer chapters to chose from in the pool that is actually interested in calling these women sisters.

You have to look at these things from both sides. I'll take a Suzie with a broken heart over being cut from "Top Chapter" over more women ending up bidless anyday.

Especially since as recruitment goes on the "we really like you" vibe gets stronger. It sucks even more to be led on, so to speak.

I'm trying to remember, we had 5 chapters and 2 rounds of 5 parties, 1 round of 3 and pref'd 2. I can't remember whether after RFM the stronger chapters had to cut after the first round or the second. But I wouldn't think anyone would have gotten let go after the first round unless they walked in an yelled how much she hated XYZ or had a 1.5 GPA. But I could be wrong.

Jenny and Suzie and Rachel all did have another chance. They (presumably) had recommendations from an alumna based on resumes and pictures they gave to the alum. That was the sororities' first look.

Presuming, of course, that they got their recs!